• London underground bombings

  • Discussion about railroad topics everywhere outside of North America.
Discussion about railroad topics everywhere outside of North America.

Moderators: Komachi, David Benton

  by David Benton
 
in the morning rush hour , i wonder if any suspious behaviour like that would be noticed ?
it really must be difficult for police etc to deal with this kind of thing ,its like trying to spot a needle in a haystack .

  by cpr_trains
 
While my weighing in on this topic is somewhat off the current flow of the thread, I nevertheless wish to add my two cents on one of the more insidious aspects of this malicious horror that occurs much after the fact and is propagated not by terrorists but instead by white-collar profiteers... I've already posted my op/ed piece on railfan.net, but as this irritates me so, I want maximum exposure among our niche audience.

Aside from the natural outrage of terrorist actions and loss of life, there's an after-effect of mass-transit attacks that really burns me up - the inevitable increase in insurance fees for passenger rail services and museums around North America. Regardless of whether or not the threat of terrorism is imminent against the United States and Canada, insurance companies seem to view these sorts of events as a boon and an opportunity to justify exorbitant fees - especially for tourist railway operations and museums.

Terrorism is indeed a cowardly act and the use of such violence in any form, from mass-murder like we saw this morning to smaller forms such as schoolyard bullying, as a method of altering opinion, lifestyle, beliefs, actions or societal values is unacceptable and we ought to remain resolute in that these individuals shall never prevent us from enjoying our lives the way we want.

Yet insurance companies who profit from terror are, in my opinion, equally despicable and undermine the efforts of the public to remain strong. Their forcing of unreasonable costs upon museums and rail operators under the guise of security from/for terror restricts the movement of us all, removes from society a level of culture and enjoyment of history and heritage and in so doing, plays directly into the goals of terrorists at large. These costs invariably end up raising costs and user fees and as we've seen so often since 2001, have resulted in the closure of countless museums and tourist railways across the continent.

Most insurance policies, before and after 9/11, contain clauses that nullify coverage in the event of an act of terror. If so, this begs the question: how can insurance companies justify an increase in premiums in lieu of worldwide terror if their policies invariably are moot from attack? Gouging and profit, that's how.

Make no mistake, those who plot and scheme these unspeakable acts of horror and carnage against the West are not as foolish as we would like to believe and I am certain they understand full-well the further-reaching implications of their acts of murder. If the goal of terrorism is to restrict our actions through violence and fear, then any insurance company who increases premiums and costs for policies that are nonetheless void through attack pander to this goal. The financial aspirations of these companies close museums and shut down tourist rail operations and thus, provide a tertiary means for terrorists to obtain their objective.

The countless dollars spent on ineffectual insurance could be put to better use by increasing security or surveillance rather than running museums out of business. I find it extraordinary that these lenders consider a tourist railway operation to be a target of significant value to terrorist cells. Shame on them.

  by David Benton
 
Thanks CPR , for your interesting contribution .
Certainly i had not heard or read about this practice .
unfortunately war and security is very big business , and many companies will be profitng from the current situation . One wonders how many organsiations are been sold security measures that they dont need , or are overpriced .

  by george matthews
 
The police now say that two of the bombers killed themselves in the explosions. Probably the other two also. They know the names of all four and have made some arrests. The story seems to be that they drove down from Leeds (where a number of houses have been searched and one person arrested), left their car in Luton at the station car park and took the Thameslink train to Kings Cross. There they seem to have dispersed, as I suggested earlier.
The bomber on the bus has been found (or fragments of him) and belongings of the others.
  by David Benton
 
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/index.cfm?c_i ... D=10335604

it appears the bombers have come from the leeds area , and are British citizens .
the article mentions tough new security measures , one wonders how you stop something like this happening .
  by george matthews
 
David Benton wrote:http://www.nzherald.co.nz/index.cfm?c_i ... D=10335604

it appears the bombers have come from the leeds area , and are British citizens .
the article mentions tough new security measures , one wonders how you stop something like this happening .
The police are saying three of them came from Leeds. I don't think they have said where the fourth came from - perhaps Dewsbury. Their motivation remains a mystery. Police are now looking for visiting terrorists and bomb makers who may have instructed them (and probably left the country again).

  by David Benton
 
i guess one possibility ( i have not read or heard this anywhere ) , is that they didnt know the bombs were set ot go off at the time they did . i.e they thought they were supposed to plant the bombs and escape before they went off .

  by george matthews
 
David Benton wrote:i guess one possibility ( i have not read or heard this anywhere ) , is that they didnt know the bombs were set ot go off at the time they did . i.e they thought they were supposed to plant the bombs and escape before they went off .
It has been mentioned as a possibility, but it is thought unlikely. This nasty trick was tried some years ago when an Arab terrorist got his girlfriend to carry a bomb on board a plane, concealed in a tape recorder. I can't remember whether it went off or whether it was detected before she got on.
I gather the police don't think this has been tried again, and that the bombers probably knew what they were doing.

  by jonnhrr
 
Does anyone know of any active forums on the London Underground? I would be interested in finding out more about the operational effects of the bombing, what is involved in getting the closed lines back in operation, and general current topics. I have found some good sites but the forums if any seem to be inactive.

Jon

  by george matthews
 
jonnhrr wrote:Does anyone know of any active forums on the London Underground? I would be interested in finding out more about the operational effects of the bombing, what is involved in getting the closed lines back in operation, and general current topics. I have found some good sites but the forums if any seem to be inactive.

Jon
Have you seen this one?

http://www.trainweb.org/tubeprune/

  by jonnhrr
 
Thanks George, I posted my message there.

That is an interesting site. I have been interested in the Tube for some time as we lived near London when I was growing up in the 1950's, and I have been back several times most recently last Fall when I also got to check out the new (for me) DLR.

  by geoffs
 
jonnhrr wrote:Does anyone know of any active forums on the London Underground?
Other than Tube Prune (mentioned above, but with no recent forum postings) I've yet to find any good active forums with detailed news from the London Underground.

I may be able to guess at a reason for this. In "normal" times (when there isn't an event like the present tragedy) there is only a broad general interest amongst the international railfan/enthusiast community. Those railfans that are keenly interested in the long term are members of traditional (ie pre-internet) specialist Societies and Clubs who exchange their information and news by monthly magazines and regular meetings.

In the case of the London Underground there is LURS - The London Underground Railway Society.
http://www.lurs.org.uk/
Their monthly "Underground News" publishes a wide range of facts and news in great detail. Most of the long term keen railfans of the London Underground are members and so concentrate their efforts into communicating by traditional means.

In the wider view beyond just the London Underground, I can see this as a problem of the digital age. How do you balance the flow of news items between forums that are open to all and can contain rumour and speculation with the traditional membership organisations or subscription publications.
One topic whose fans seem to be trying to balance this is London Buses. The London Omnibus Traction Society (LOTS) continues to publish every event and news item in their membership monthy but also has a website
http://www.lots.org.uk/
which gives the last few weeks of news followed by a note saying that to see more news join the Society. There is also a very active moderated forum for London Buses which specialises in "hot news" and again leaves all the routine details to the LOTS magazine.

(I should add that as a member of both LURS and LOTS, the views expressed here are my own and do not represent the opinion of LURS or LOTS).

  by george matthews
 
Today 21 July exactly two weeks later there have been incidents similar to the original one. Devices exploded in three trains, one on the Hammersmith and City line (only working between Hammersmith and Paddington at present); another at Warren Street on the Victoria line, a third at Oval on the Northern line and one on a bus in Hackney.

It seems the detonators went off but not the bomb itself in each case. The police now have the bombs and so can investigate them. No-one was killed and little damage done. Bus windows were blown out.
That's all I know at this moment.

At one station the bomber seems to have rushed up the stairs and escaped. The police may have another one in custody.