LIRR trip to Hempstead

Got up before the crack of dawn this morning to catch the 6:55a from Penn Station to Hempstead. I had a trustee M1 or M3 (?) and noticed while walking through the cars that two of them had broken heat. I was shivering even in my thickest winter jacket that I wore today. I heard these 'oldies' have a railfan window, but when I walked up to the front, the engineer had his cab door wide open. Not only that, it was open the entire length of the trip. Aren't there any transit issues regarding operating with the door open? Anyway, here is the list of observations and questions will follow each:

1) List LIRR deadheads. I caught one heading to the city 'speeding' through Floral Park at around 8:20a.

2) How are the grade crossings activated? Does a conductor 'key-in' on a platform like NJT does? or what's their procedure?

3) At Nassau Blvd., there are two miniature sheds, each of whose roof has some drawing on it. One I spotted clearly was a black and white portrait of a head. Can anyone clarify details?

4) In what case would bi-levels be powered by a locomotive in the front and the back? I spotted several of these.

5) Is there a yard at Jamaica? If so, which trains go there? Any website which lists details would be appreciated. Also any interesting details of the Hillside Facility?

6) At Garden City, we were held for quite a few minutes because of a train that stopped there earlier. When I looked back in the schedules, no such passenger train exists. (we arrived the station about 7:45a, train before stops at 6:09a) Was this a 'special' train and why did it stop here? I spotted a number of cars turn around at the grade crossing because of the long wait.

7) What does 'W' in a square next to the tracks mean?

8) A spur track skews away from the mainline at Country Life Press. Any details?

9) Why were the 'catwalks' beneath the tracks created at Hempstead?

10) Does a conductor regularly detrain before arrival at Hempstead?

11) There is a medium-sized metal storage bin next to the tracks which houses 'Halon Fire Protection'. What's in it and when and where is it used?

12) On our express run past Jamaica towards Hempstead, we were very slow pulling in, and we stopped within the station limits for about a minute or two. Does the stop occur regularly?

13) What is the "Jay Breaker House"?

14) What do these general railroad signs mean? "STOP END OF BLOCK" , "BEGIN ASC" , "YARD LIMIT THIRD RAIL"

hey lets see if i can answer ur questions. btw, i work for MTA METRO NORTH as a 125th street PA operator. lets see that first question the answer is, that may not be a deadhead. if it was that time of the morning it could have been a flyer(WHAT LIRR CALLS A NONSTOP TRAIN) and what we in Metro North call (CANNONBALLS). examples would be the 602 from NY penn, Locust Manor first stop. one MNRR example would be, 504 BEACON. CORTLANDT FIRST STOP. Many Trains dont make floral park but past through the area. the Oyster bays dont make floral park, neither do the huntington or ronkonkomas, or the Patchogue trains which run the mainline. floral park is a hempstead branch train station usually, if i am wrong, LIRR personnel correct me. i can only give accurate info about MNRR. after all thats who my employee badge says i work for, LOL. 2nd question. in LIRR most grade level crossings such as the one by new hyde park is operated by the presence of a approaching train. the circuit senses a moving train approaching, therefore lowering the gates. because if ur gates are inoperative, it would be made known to engineers through bulletin orders, and they would be ordered to do restricted speed which according to Metro North is a speed that will permit stopping within one half the range of vision prepared to find track occupied, looking out for broken rail or CROSSING PROTECTION OUT OF ORDER, and not exceeding 15 miles an hour. Maybe NJ transit is a different Railroad and their operating procedures are different. Also Long island Railroad is a Railroad, so mentioning the word transit would make any Railroad employee or crew member raise an eyebrow at you. We are not Transit nor are we in any way offiliated. they dont honor our passes so we dont honor theirs either! we dont like them and they dont like us! LOL. the rules do state NO one is to operate their locomotive with the cab door open unless u have permission from Rail Traffic Control, or local tower. Exception is unless conducting Railroad related business or observing a student engineer. the locomotives u see with coaches are known as PUSH PULLS. NJ TRANSIT does this as well as LIRR AND MNRR. in NJ transit, they lead in either direction the ALP44s. IN LIRR LOCOMOTIVES LEAD EAST, AND PUSH ON THE TAIL HEADED WEST. IN MNRR OUR LOCOMOTIVES LEAD NORTH, AND TAIL SOUTH PUSHING. THATS WHY THEY CALLED PUSH PULL. By the way at Danbury we have a different crossing, its called CLOSED CIRCUIT. its shown by CC on the tracks. it requires a engineer to stop and allow the crossing protection to be activated for 30 seconds before proceeding. see rule 42 MNRR employees and see timetable. Yes there is a yard at jamaica. most of the trains terminating at jamaica either go to johnson avenue yard, or dunton facility. Hillside is located west of hollis and can be accessed by riding a hempstead local or any other train displaying HSF(HILLSIDE FACILITY). for trains, there is a interlocking called PALLISADES next to track 4 which leads in and out of hillside. its barns are for ELECTRIC MARRIED UNIT (EMU REPAIR) WHICH INCLUDES M1-M3 AND M7. MNRR WE USE HIGHBRIDGE THE SAME WAY, WE ALSO USE CROTON HARMON SHOPS. U might have gotten held at Garden city because its a single track east before arriving at country life press. and a Deadhead probably was relaying in front of you to get to the yard and not the platforms. the W is what Railroaders call, WHISTLE POST. in LIRR AND AMTRAK and NJ transit its rule 14L. in MNRR its 10D. it means sound a LONG, LONG SHORT LONG! sound whenever u see it! in MNRR if u see W MX it means Whistle for MULTIPLE CROSSINGS. i believe that extra track is OUT OF SERVICE. im not sure tho, my badge says MNRR NOT LIRR LOL. try to ask a crew member qualified on hempstead branch. Not sure about the catwalks at hempstead. also a conductor usually doesnt detrain b4 the train arrives at terminal. that might have been a DROPOFF. Halon fire protection i believe is for electrical fires. not sure what its used for, but i believe inside are fire estinguishers and everything needed to protect whoever uses it. usually trackworkers and MOW(MAINTENANCE OF WAY) personnel. nah that stop usually doesnt happen. but if ur Automatic Speed Control reduces to restricted, u cannot operate above 5-10mph so he probably got hit with a penalty brake. JAY is not a breaker house, its a signal tower which controls everything up to Metropolitan avenue signal which is west of jamaica. HALL CONTROLS EAST OF JAMAICA. STOP END OF BLOCK MEANS U MIGHT BE GOING INTO A NEW KIND OF TERRITORY. BEGIN ASC MEANS (BEGIN AUTOMATIC SPEED CONTROL) USUALLY MEANS RULE 261 410 TERRITORY MEANING. U CAN OPERATE EITHER TRACK, REVERSE SIGNALLED, AND ASC WILL LEAD U ALL THE WAY. INTERLOCKING SIGNALS ONLY NO WAYSIDE IS WHAT 410 MEANS. ONLY AUTOMATIC TERRITORY FOR LIRR LEFT IS WEST OF JAMAICA TO NY PENN. MNRR DOESNT EVEN HAVE AUTOMATICS!!! YARD LIMIT 3RD RAIL MEANS DONT PASS THAT SIGN BECAUSE UR THIRD RAIL WILL END. AND ITS THE END OF THE YARD. ITS LOCATION IS DETERMINED BY YOUR TIMETABLE.

I'LL see if I can answer a few. I will use you question numbers for my answers:
3) The sheds at Nassau Blve are the entrance to stairs that lead to a passage way under the tracks so one can get from one platform to the other.
4) Normally locomotves are use on both ends of the train if:
a) The train has more then 6 cars in its consist. This is due to HEP
requiremnts. The DE/DM30 uses the prime mover to supply HEP so
1 engine has difficulty supply HEP to more then 6 cars. Once in a
while you may see a train with 7 or 8 cars and 1 engine but that is
not the norm.
b) The train is a Dual Mode that operates in and out of Penn. Since
there are only contact shoes on the engines the LIRR reqiures an
engine on each end to prevent gapping.
c) Sometimes the RR is short cab cars so it an engine is put one
each end. This does not happen often.
5) There are 7 yards in the vincinity of the Jamica Station that are used for passenger trains. They are Johnson Ave Yard, D Yard, E Yard, The Jamaica Storage Yard, The Recieving Yard, The Advance Yard, and Hillside Yard. Also near Jamaica is Morris Park which is were diesels are seviced. This facility has to lay up engines, and Holban Yard which was once a very busy freight yard, now it is primarly a MofW Facility. There are too may trains to list that originate and/or lay up in these yards. The only place that I am aware of that this information can be found is in an employee timetable.
6) The Hempstead Branch becomes single track east of Garden Interlocking (which is just east Garden City Station.) Most likely you waiting for a westbound train leaving Hempstead to clear the single track portion of the branch.
8) That spur track is the Garden Mitchel Field Secondary Track. It is rarely used but at one time it was very busy servicing industry near what was once Mitchell Field, a long closed airfield. It also once carried passenger trains for Roosevelt Field Racetrack.
10) At Hempstead it is sometimes neccessary to line a switch for an empty station track, in this case the brakeman (normally) has to go down to get the switch. Also if the crew has to lay the train up in one of the yard tracks after discharging their passenger, it is neccessary to use a track called "the pocket". In order to expedite the move , the crew will usually drop the brakeman off by the switch for the pocket so he can line the yard while the Conductor makes sure all the passengers are off the train , and then gets to the rear of the train so he can be in position to make the reverse move into the pocket.
11) I am not familer with the bin you are talking about but HALON is a type of chemical fire extingusher that is effective aginst all types of fires.
12) Not always , but it is not uncommon for Flyers to get a stop signal while going through Jamica since it is a very congested location.
13) "JAY" is the name of the interlocking on the west side of Jamaica Station. JAY BREAKER HOUSE" houses the circuit breakers for that inetrlocking.
14)"End of Block" marks the location were main track ends and either a yard or secindary tracks begin. This is important t know because the rules governing train movemnt on maintrack differ from those in yards and one secondary tracks.
"YARD LIMIT" is found only in single track, manual block territory. It has nothing to do with yards. Yard limits are on main track and within yrad limits and extra train can ocupy single main track in manual block territory without train order authority.
Hope I helped.

There were lots of extra holiday trains, and that was why you couldn't find them on a regular schedule - unless you had the holiday schedule, then it was a deadhead to make a holiday train.

F40,

Your first question was actually before you even started asking the numbered questions.

I had a trustee M1 or M3 (?)

Perhaps the best way for the occasional rider to differentiate between M-1 and M-3 is to look for the large bumpouts in the middle of the inside of the car, or the black intake grille replacing one window on each side of the outside of the car. That would make the car an M-3.

Second best way is to just remember that anything over car number 9770 is an M-3. (Simply remember "770")

Other things you can look for are the three lights over the Engineer's cab door (M-3) or the different luggage racks.


The "Halon" sign is basically a warning sign. Halon absorbs or neutralizes all the oxygen within a confined area, to remove the oxygen from the fire equation. It is very effective in electrical rooms and computer equipment rooms, where water would be a poor choice of extinguishing agent, and would ruin the equipment anyway.
The "Halon" sign is telling you to get the heck out of that room if the stuff disperses, because you won't be able to breathe.

Tom

Actually, Halon in concentrations sufficient to extinuish fires will not kill you. As I recall, 15% Halon concentration will do you in, but systems in data centers (where halonis usually used) are sized to yield a 7.5% concentration. Quite safe for humans.

Halon is used for electrical fires and is useful since it does not leave a huge cleanup (try cleaning a a car engine after someone has dumped a couple of chemical extinguisher bottles on it). BTW, Halon is a gas, not a chemical. Yeah, yeah, I know it is _a_ chemical, just that it is not a powdery concentration like the white stuff you see come out of most fire extinguishers.

On the other hand, CO2 will kill, since it does displace oxygen.

And Halon was also outlawed by the envirofreaks, because it may/maynot do something that may/maynot be bad to ozone if it's ever used. The replacement I think is FM200, which isn't as good or as cheap. Duh.

Halon itself is amazing stuff to see in action. I recall an old product demo for the stuff that's staged in a kitchen with a typcal housewife and the microwave, oven, stove, toaster, radio, etc on fire. She pulls out a spraypaint can sized thing, and *zap* that's it for the toaster's fire...*zap* there goes the one on the stove...*zap* *zap* *zap*. Everything's just getting zapped out instantly.

I believe OHSA or such requires marking areas where it's used because it can displace oxygen. Naturally, in an unoccupied area, it's best to just blast the heck out of everything with the stuff, thus the warnings.

I recall reading a while back about a suferfine water mist system someone was researching. Through some magical physics thing, when discharged, the mist would actually get attracted right to the flames and smother them, and not touch anything else. Never read what happened to the research, though....

F40 with the door open go up to the engineer and ask him to close it

F40 with the door open go up to the engineer and ask him to close it

In an M-1 or M-3, even with the cab door open, there is enough room for a person to see out the front...I have done it many times. The open door should only present a problem if more than one person is trying to look out the front, or you want to take pix.
If you break chops on the Engineer about the open door, he can forbid you from standing right by the front window. That area is required to be clear, in case he/she has to egress the cab quickly. So, be nice!!
Old timers such as (now retired) "Brooklyn Al" carried chains that they could install between the hooks provided for the purpose of delineating the restricted area. (Many of the hooks are now broken off.)

Tom

In an M-1 or M-3, even with the cab door open, there is enough room for a person to see out the front...I have done it many times. The open door should only present a problem if more than one person is trying to look out the front, or you want to take pix.

Yes, but what you're left with is less than half a window to enjoy!

Once in a while on channel 2 I'll hear an engineer ask 204 for permission to run with the cab door open due to the cab heat or air conditioning not working. But the doors often are left open, more in recent months than they were the last few years. I can understand this; those little cabs must be very tight. It's unfortunate that this only leaves a narrow slit to see through if you're standing by the first vestibule like I usually do.

Regrettably the curtain is gradually coming down for riders to see out the front of trains in the New York area. With the M-7's coming in-service in ever increasing numbers, in another few years the whole issue of open cab doors will be irrelevant, and a great rail-buffing era will be over.

When I used to ride up at the head end if the cab door was open most of the time either the engineer would either strike up a conversation with me or would ask if I wanted to look out and if I said yes would just close the door. I found that most engineers were more than willing to talk to children and explain how things worked which always made me anxious to ride the train to learn more. That was years ago though I don't know how much things have changed since then.

tp49,

I've found the same to be true. Usually, either the Engineer will talk to you or ask if you want to look out the window, or close the door the second you show up to get away from you. Either one can be a plus for you.
Even as fellow employee, I've encountered a few real surly SOBs over the course of the years. Most are OK or better, however.
If a headender is pleasant and doesn't come across as a know-it-all, he will usually get along with many of them.

Tom

"4) In what case would bi-levels be powered by a locomotive in the front and the back? I spotted several of these. "

Anything from diesel territory going to NYP requires DMs on both ends to prevent 3rd rail gapping in the tunnels which would cause the train to stall or go BIE(or so I'm told).


" At Garden City, we were held for quite a few minutes because of a train that stopped there earlier. When I looked back in the schedules, no such passenger train exists. (we arrived the station about 7:45a, train before stops at 6:09a) Was this a 'special' train and why did it stop here? I spotted a number of cars turn around at the grade crossing because of the long wait"

May have been a train they were moving from Hempstead up to store it on the secondary. They sometimes do that.


"7) What does 'W' in a square next to the tracks mean? "

W=whistle. Means from that point, the engineer must begin to sound the horn in a long-long-short-long pattern, holding the last long all the way over the crossing.


"8) A spur track skews away from the mainline at Country Life Press. Any details?"

Someone here told you that is the garden city-mitchell field secondary(which is where I said they may have put that train that blocked yours), but if it was at CLP, it was probably the old spur that connects to WH. It doesn't have tracks though. If you did see tracks, then the other person was probably right in saying that it was the secondary.

One other reminder when posting info on this site. Please do not refer to specific trains when asking a question like you did. You never know who is reading these pages, and some employees have had disciplinary measures taken against them after a transportation supervisor saw a post asking "What happened on the 2:32 out of Long Beach?"

Keep your questions generalized without referring to specific trains.

Jay