LIRR trip to Hempstead

Actually I had an experience like N340 and TP49 are saying. A few months back I was sitting a few seats down from the window, craning my neck to see out and the engineer actually invited me to come up to the window. He said most of them would not have a problem with that as long as you ask them nicely.

I see.

So what is the history behind the M1's and M3's?

And what about the M-series in between these and the M7 (if they exist)?

M-1:
The origional version, late 60's Budd design. Won a number of design awards, the LIRR ordered boatloads of them, what became Metro-North got a modified version, M-1a. Budd's operator's manual says 100mph top speed, though there are plenty of claims about the thing's performance in all respects. Introduced P-Wire braking to the LIRR, and maybe mainline rail operations (though the Metroliners had it too). This brought the ever memorable *woosh* brake release sound a generation or so has grown up listening to.

M-2:
GE built units for Metro-North's New Haven Line. Dual power systems, capable of 25hz operation. Origionally ignitron rectifer for AC, but refitted with SCRs. Famous for its various failure modes. Also not the same brakes as the M-1 - go figure. Roof bump is where the resistors go, to make room for the AC gear. A few became bar cars, making them perhaps the only EMU bar cars in existance anywhere. Cab signal uses an air whistle instead of the bell.

M-3:
Budd built units for Metro-North initially. Had trouble at first due to poor performance. Big changes were the cast trucks and the 'suction ports' on the carbody side for forced traction motor cooling. Probbably a lot of underhood stuff too.

M-4:
Triplets for the New Haven Line. Made by the Tokyo Car Company. GE propulsion. Two pans per triplet. Worse ride than the M-2s, though I believe they're actually the heaviest of all the New Haven cars.

M-5:
Proposed single unit car. This died on the drawing board.

M-6:
Triplet for the New Haven Line. Built by M-K. Debugged by M-K. For years. Up and running at least some of the time by the late 90's (built '96). Anoying ding dong noise for the doors and noisy doors.

M-7:
Pairs for the LIRR/MN. AC propulsion (Mitsubishi IGBT inverters), "1080hp" per car. New body design. 30,000 lbs heavier than an M-1.

M-8:
Triplets for the New Haven Line. Because a transformer would push the weight of a powered car to way too much to be economical (I estimated about 150,000lbs), the current plan is to have an unpowered 'transformer car' inbetween two modified M-7s. On DC, it would be a trailer, on AC, it would be basically a rolling substation to feed the M-7 based end cars with DC power. This is actualy kinda what the Washboards and Pioneer III MUs were - DC MUs with AC substations onboard.

M-9:
Proposed M-3s replacements for the LIRR: 2.5 million supposedly on the table to design them in the next few years.

I really have to ask, after only a little over a year in service the railroad is already proposing an M-9? Don't tell me "it's an improved M-7", after such a design process and the cost for the M-7. That really shows how inept these people are.

BTW- Nasadowsk, do you have an M-1 operators manual? Where did you happen to score that?

-Tom

KFRG:

I have 2.

Make me an offer for one. . . . .

Dave Keller
[email protected]

<i>I really have to ask, after only a little over a year in service the railroad is already proposing an M-9? Don't tell me "it's an improved M-7", after such a design process and the cost for the M-7. That really shows how inept these people are. </i>

Yep. It's in the MTA's capital budget thingie. Beats me what they want to improve, though I'd start with putting it on a diet and fixing the interior seating arrangement which nobody likes...

<i>BTW- Nasadowsk, do you have an M-1 operators manual? Where did you happen to score that? </i>

Ebay! Seriously. It's the gen-U-ine light blue, Budd logo'd book from the late 60's.

Jay's probably right...

It's best to keep specific informational general if possible. (Does that make sense?) While the Railroad's supervisors don't troll the 'Net for dirt on their brothers, and while nothing posted on a website could ever be used for discipline, it is a small world out there. When you identify a specific train and day you are also identifying at least a three man crew.

You might not like people drawing attention to you in such a personal way.

Clem.

Dave Keller,
You have an email!

The "whoosh" sound is always a signature of riding the M1's. Are there any 'tech specs' for the M1's, M3's, and M7's in particular? (i.e. wt. of cab car/with and without lavatory, width, ht, length, # seating, HP, max speed, etc.)

Are M7's going to replace the entire LIRR fleet over time? And the same for MNRR?

How many M7's and bi-levels were ordered and what is the expected competion of delivery for both?

AFAIK, M7s are replacing only some M1s, I think bout half or 2/3rds the fleet.

The halon was preferred where there was sensitive electrical and/or computer equipment. The common extinguishing agent for electrical fires should be carbon dioxide, but the CO2 had moisture issues associated.

Will the replaced M1's be scrapped?

F40 wrote:Will the replaced M1's be scrapped?

In one word, yes.

F40,

How many M7's and bi-levels were ordered and what is the expected competion of delivery for both?

134 C-3 bilevel coaches, which were all received in late 90's.
678 M-7 cars, which are scheduled to all be delivered to LIRR by April, 2006. (We have almost half of them now.)

LIRR needs well over 900 EMU cars to function, so 172 M-3 cars that are being overhauled, and 132 M-1 cars that were overhauled in late 90s, will be hanging around for awhile. Eventually, yes, all LIRR EMU cars will be M-7 or M-9.

All LIRR EMU cars are 85 feet long.

M-1 = 560 HP (4 DC GE 1255 traction motors)
M-3 = 600 HP (4 DC GE 1261 traction motors)
M-7 = 1060 HP (4 Mitsubishi AC traction motors @ 265 HP per motor)

M-1 (as originally configured)
"B" car seated 118
"A" car seated 122
(120 seats now in "A" car because of ADA wheelchair area and ramp storage retrofit)

M-3 "A" car now seats 120
M-3 "B" car now seats 114

M-7 has a lot less seats than M-1 because of huge ADA bathroom, ADA wheelchair areas, and electric / electronic component cabinets.
110 "A" car and 101 "B" car. Full width cab knocks out another 2 seats when closed off.

Approximate weights empty:
M-1 = 93,000#
M-3 = 110,000#
M-7 "A" car = 126,240# (144,000# with full seating "A" car pax load)
M-7 "B" car = 129,240#

Thanks for the info N340SG. How about the max design speeds, width, and height? And what voltage does LIRR run on again?

and which portions of the LIRR are electrified?