Leaf Residue (Pectin, Slip/Slide, Waterworld, Sanders, and Lasers to Prevent Flat Spots

Just curious, was this an issue before the M-7's were delivered???

TacSupport1 wrote:Just curious, was this an issue before the M-7's were delivered???

Yes, but the original software of the M7's took some of the control to react to the slip-slide out of the engineers' hands. Recently two pairs of M7's were fitted with new test software, so now when the cab signal downgrades there won't be an automatic brake application.

But that won't keep leaves off the rails or eliminate slip-slide.

TacSupport1 wrote:Just curious, was this an issue before the M-7's were delivered???

Yes. But we're talking about assignments and schedules, not application and design.

RearOfSignal wrote: ...the original software of the M7's took some of the control to react to the slip-slide out of the engineers' hands. Recently two pairs of M7's were fitted with new test software, so now when the cab signal downgrades there won't be an automatic brake application. But that won't keep leaves off the rails or eliminate slip-slide.

You mean all the time? So if an engr fails to react there's no brake application? That doesn't sound too good.

Btw, a friend of mine rode up to Southeast Saturday afternoon -- the weather was terrible -- and once past Mount Kisco they overran quite a few stations.

I rode the Harlem Friday afternoon and the Hudson Friday night. M7s both ways, no problems.

Tommy Meehan wrote:

RearOfSignal wrote: ...the original software of the M7's took some of the control to react to the slip-slide out of the engineers' hands. Recently two pairs of M7's were fitted with new test software, so now when the cab signal downgrades there won't be an automatic brake application. But that won't keep leaves off the rails or eliminate slip-slide.

You mean all the time? So if an engr fails to react there's no brake application? That doesn't sound too good.

Btw, a friend of mine rode up to Southeast Saturday afternoon -- the weather was terrible -- and once past Mount Kisco they overran quite a few stations.

I rode the Harlem Friday afternoon and the Hudson Friday night. M7s both ways, no problems.

The way is currently works is that when the cabsignal downgrades the alarm sounds and there is an automatic brake application. The system they are testing is that the alarm will sound but the brake won't apply unless the engineer fails to acknowledge the alarm and reduce speed. This gives the engineer more control instead of the train deciding how much to brake and when indiscriminately of weather or rail conditions.

Yes, Saturday was very bad on the Harlem.

RearOfSignal wrote:The system they are testing is that the alarm will sound but the brake won't apply unless the engineer fails to acknowledge the alarm and reduce speed. ...Yes, Saturday was very bad on the Harlem.

Thanks. That sounds pretty sensible, but I thought it worked like that already??

If traveling at 60 mph and hit with a Limited Cab(45 mph) on an M7 the alarm will go off and a brake application will be made even if the engineer acknowledges the downgrade. The application will continue until the train reaches 45 mph. If the engineer still doesn't acknowledge the alarm the train will dump. I'm not an engineer though, one of the guys on here could probably explain it better.

I wonder how the engineers designing the M8 brake software will incorporate what they're learning with the M7s?

I read where Metro-North felt this year the M7s would perform better during leaf season than last since some software "tweaking" that was done, having made the performance worse, would be 'untweaked' for this season.

Still this season hasn't seemed as bad as other years. But I'm not riding as often so maybe it is?

Kawasaki is stduying the slip/slide problem that the M7s had and are planning on incorporating a similar modified software system in the M8s. Keep in mind that the M8s will be anywhere from 10,000 to 15,000 pounds heavier than the M7s. More weight on the rails reduces slip/slide.

capecodlocoguy wrote:Keep in mind that the M8s will be anywhere from 10,000 to 15,000 pounds heavier than the M7s. More weight on the rails reduces slip/slide.

Wowee these MUs keep getting heavier and heavier. I think the M1s were lighter than the old NYC/PC ACMU 1100s. With the M3s this trend was reversed.

Good from a traction standpoint I guess but bad for power usage? They're like an electric car SUV!

The extra weight on the M8s is for the transformers (12.5 KV/25 KV) under the car. Horsepower rating will be similar to the M7s, which are so overpowered that they operate at only 30%, so the horsepower vs the weight on the M8s should workout nicely.

is there more than one water world train or is there just one and are they still running the f10 and gp35 on it

There are 2, last night the 129 was on the south end of one of the Waterworlds didn't see what was on the north end.

Speaking of slip slide, theres a news article in todays TRAINS magazine that half of Baltimores light rail system is OOS due to flat wheels.
Leaves on the tracks caused wheel slip and damage to the wheels.

This may sound like a dumb question, but how did the legacy roads such as NYC deal with this issue? It seems like a newer problem, but I may be ignorant of the facts.