Iowa Pacific Pullman Service

CHTT1 wrote:Trains New Wire reported that the dinner/brunch trains will run from Chicago to Sturtevant and return.

"For a little silver quarter
We can have the Pullman Porter
Turn the lights down low ..."

"Shuffle off to Sturtevant" doesn't sound catchy enough!

Ridgefielder wrote:Could Iowa Pacific run sleepers on trains that don't currently carry them? I'm thinking in particular of 66 and 67- the overnight Boston-Washington trains.

I believe any train that currently permits PVs would permit this. I"m not sure if 66/67 allow this. I suspect they do since they run a baggage car already and the general limitation is speed and 66/67 already runs a bit slower than the other regionals.

Greg Moore wrote:

Ridgefielder wrote:Could Iowa Pacific run sleepers on trains that don't currently carry them? I'm thinking in particular of 66 and 67- the overnight Boston-Washington trains.

I believe any train that currently permits PVs would permit this. I"m not sure if 66/67 allow this. I suspect they do since they run a baggage car already and the general limitation is speed and 66/67 already runs a bit slower than the other regionals.

66 and 67 carry private cars. However, I don't think the dome service would do well on these trains since most of their trip time is under the cover of night. The sleeping car might have shot.

I have to say although I like the brunch menu, I'm not to keen on the dinner menu. I'm a serious food lover and I'll travel great distances for a good meal. Hell, I was even prepared to board a brunch ferris wheel and travel in a circle for 45 minutes while I ate. They can do better.

Wouldn't people who would take sleeping cars on Amtrak routes....already be taking Amtrak, or if Amtrak doesn't have enough capacity, wouldn't the additional demand already be accounted for by Amtrak's soon-to-come Viewliners?

What am I missing?

SouthernRailway wrote:Wouldn't people who would take sleeping cars on Amtrak routes....already be taking Amtrak, or if Amtrak doesn't have enough capacity, wouldn't the additional demand already be accounted for by Amtrak's soon-to-come Viewliners?

What am I missing?

Several aspects might work:
1) Adding sleeping cars to trains (such as 66/67) that don't currently have them.
2) Even with additional sleepers, there may be room for additional rooms at a similar rate.
3) White glove service. While already sleeping passengers can get benefits such as earlier boarding, access to Acela lounges, meals included and other perks, it may be possible to add even more perks. 1st class seats on planes get there the same time as coach, but people are willing to pay far more than 2x as a coach seat for less than 2x the room because of the white glove service.
For example say instead of IP providing this, Disney bought enough sleepers, coaches and a diner for the Silver Service trains. Right now Disney does things like meet folks at the airport, pick up their baggage, deliver it to their room on park or on the cruise ship. So you get onboard the plane in your home town, get off, get on a bus and arrive at your room with your baggage already there. Now imagine a "land cruise" version of Disney where the courtesy van picks you up at your house (withing 25 miles of a major city) and drops you off at their sleeper cars and handle your baggage. You leave NYP or WAS around dinner time, have a Character Dinner with your kids and a Disney character and then the same for breakfast and then get off at Orlando and are whisked to your on-property hotel.

So, it may work. I'm not convinced, but hey, I'm not investing in it. (Though if Disney uses my idea, I want some free passes

Greg Moore wrote:

SouthernRailway wrote:Wouldn't people who would take sleeping cars on Amtrak routes....already be taking Amtrak, or if Amtrak doesn't have enough capacity, wouldn't the additional demand already be accounted for by Amtrak's soon-to-come Viewliners?

What am I missing?

Several aspects might work:

3) White glove service. While already sleeping passengers can get benefits such as earlier boarding, access to Acela lounges, meals included and other perks, it may be possible to add even more perks. 1st class seats on planes get there the same time as coach, but people are willing to pay far more than 2x as a coach seat for less than 2x the room because of the white glove service.

So, it may work. I'm not convinced, but hey, I'm not investing in it. (Though if Disney uses my idea, I want some free passes

Agreed. Good points.

I may be wrong, but I'd guess that the "luxury train trip" market, except on some routes, would be mostly leisure travelers rather than business travelers. I'd hope that there is a big enough market for that. If this new sleeping car idea wants to really tap into a lucrative market, it would need to attract business travelers.

I fly a lot and get upgraded most of the time, but on domestic routes, even most upgrades on planes are for frequent flyers, not people who pay first class fares. International is different, though.

SouthernRailway wrote: I may be wrong, but I'd guess that the "luxury train trip" market, except on some routes, would be mostly leisure travelers rather than business travelers. I'd hope that there is a big enough market for that. If this new sleeping car idea wants to really tap into a lucrative market, it would need to attract business travelers.

I fly a lot and get upgraded most of the time, but on domestic routes, even most upgrades on planes are for frequent flyers, not people who pay first class fares. International is different, though.

Hard to say. Personally I think in the east there are certainly a market for properly marketed overnight trains for business travelers. 66/67 is one such example. I think LSL could be better used and marketed this way.

I think the "luxury train" market is far too small for regular service and probably works the most out west.

Greg Moore wrote:

SouthernRailway wrote: I may be wrong, but I'd guess that the "luxury train trip" market, except on some routes, would be mostly leisure travelers rather than business travelers. I'd hope that there is a big enough market for that. If this new sleeping car idea wants to really tap into a lucrative market, it would need to attract business travelers.

I fly a lot and get upgraded most of the time, but on domestic routes, even most upgrades on planes are for frequent flyers, not people who pay first class fares. International is different, though.

Hard to say. Personally I think in the east there are certainly a market for properly marketed overnight trains for business travelers. 66/67 is one such example. I think LSL could be better used and marketed this way.

I think the "luxury train" market is far too small for regular service and probably works the most out west.

Agreed. 66/67 could be, since I think that business travelers would need high frequencies. Relying on a 1-a-day train in each direction just isn't enough for business travelers.

1st class seats on planes get there the same time as coach, but people are willing to pay far more than 2x as a coach seat for less than 2x the room because of the white glove service.

First class service on airlines is far from "white glove" and in fact is best described as "less horrible". Basically what first class is today, coach was 20 years ago. The driving factor behind this is that today first class is an upgrade perk for frequent fliers, sometimes given away for free if there are premium seats that might go unused. A New York Times article on the phenomenon discovered that on a recent coast to coast trip only two of the 30 first class seats available had been purchased by customers...the reporter being one of them. I currently do not get the feeling that sleeping cars on Amtrak are full of AGR riders...which is probably a good thing.

SouthernRailway wrote:

Greg Moore wrote:

SouthernRailway wrote: I may be wrong, but I'd guess that the "luxury train trip" market, except on some routes, would be mostly leisure travelers rather than business travelers. I'd hope that there is a big enough market for that. If this new sleeping car idea wants to really tap into a lucrative market, it would need to attract business travelers.

I fly a lot and get upgraded most of the time, but on domestic routes, even most upgrades on planes are for frequent flyers, not people who pay first class fares. International is different, though.

Hard to say. Personally I think in the east there are certainly a market for properly marketed overnight trains for business travelers. 66/67 is one such example. I think LSL could be better used and marketed this way.

I think the "luxury train" market is far too small for regular service and probably works the most out west.

Agreed. 66/67 could be, since I think that business travelers would need high frequencies. Relying on a 1-a-day train in each direction just isn't enough for business travelers.

Am I right in thinking that the only reason 66/67 lost their sleepers was that Amtrak had a shortage of single-level sleepers? I'm pretty sure this train handled a set-out sleeper for NY Penn into the 90's.

As someone who works in a business and a firm where people are frequently going back and forth between DC, NY and Boston, I can tell you for a fact that there'd be enough demand to fill a Pullman or two most nights.

You're 100% right.

For the last 10+ years I've flown between 25,000-100,000 miles per year on one airline, and I get upgraded to first class on most flights. You get a bigger seat (and usually no screaming kids), a pre-departure drink, a snack basket (cookies, potato chips, etc.) a pretty good (sometimes) meal if the flight is long enough and at least one round of drinks during the flight, and that's it. Sometimes you get to have your ID checked at a shorter line before you go through TSA security, and sometimes you can check in at a shorter line, but that's everything.

I think that paid business/first class travelers are much more frequent on international flights, though.

Amtrak could use a few tips (usually re: shorter lines) from airline programs for frequent fliers, but I on a recent trip when I took the Crescent 1-way in a sleeping car and flew back (in first class), my trip on the Crescent was better.

I do give Amtrak credit for filling sleeping cars pretty well. Check out the astronomical prices on the Crescent, whose sleeping car space so often sells out.

Ridgefielder wrote: Am I right in thinking that the only reason 66/67 lost their sleepers was that Amtrak had a shortage of single-level sleepers? I'm pretty sure this train handled a set-out sleeper for NY Penn into the 90's.

As someone who works in a business and a firm where people are frequently going back and forth between DC, NY and Boston, I can tell you for a fact that there'd be enough demand to fill a Pullman or two most nights.

You're partially correct. 66/67 had the Executive Sleeper set outs in addition to run through sleepers. The Executives Sleepers were cut when the Night Owl became the Twilight Shoreliner with earlier running times. The Twilight Shoreliner (and the Cardinal) lost their sleeping cars due to equipment shortages. It was explained they were the least utilized.

I still don't think "luxury" and train 66/67 mix unless you're traveling between Newport News and Washington.

I being JBHUNTFAN could see sleepers tacked on the back of a high priority JBHUNT intermodal. train say from Texas to New York or PA. Slack on Intermodal trains is way less then junk trains

While unrelated to rail travel, yet with regards to Mr. Southern's immediate, look what is the lead article in The Times Travel section today:

http://travel.nytimes.com/2012/02/12/tr ... class.html

Brief passage:

• As a longtime veteran of the coach cabin and all the horrors therein — the battles for overhead space, the wheelie-bag traffic jams, the knee-numbing legroom — one can only imagine my thrill when I boarded a recent American Airlines flight from San Jose, Calif., to Dallas. There I was, after all, in the first row. My seat was wide, the armrest was enormous, and the guys behind me were talking, businessman-style, about real estate and golf, bankruptcies and bogies. This was the high life, I figured, a conviction that only intensified when the flight attendant approached with a silver tray and addressed me — unprompted — as “Mr. McKinley.” Then he handed me, well, a towel.
  
  Or sort of. Maybe it was more of a wipe? It was basically the size of a cocktail napkin. Or perhaps it was a piece of the pilot’s long-lost security blanket. Whatever it was, it was marginally warm, borderline damp, and had the unmistakable, oft-used texture of a bargain washcloth.
  
  Ah, first class.
  
  Once an enclave of elegance, fabulous fliers and V.I.P.’s with sights to see and places to be, these days, judging from a recent informal survey I undertook of several of the nation’s bigger domestic carriers, the experience is often reminiscent of what one used to find in coach. Same kind of pillows. Same kind of blankets. Same kind of guy in sweats, a fleece and a ball-cap letting his knees expand to the widest possible angle while downing a free drink

Oh and to think back to my first flight in this life; KIDL-KDEN July 1957 (United DC-7 First Class), how I was expected to be dressed in a suit and tie, as were my Mother, Father, and Sister likewise attired.

First Class on airlines varies. If you're talking Chicago to Denver, it's exactly as described above and quite possibly not worth the $600 adder. You're in the same cabin of a narrowbody as a screaming kid, just further away with a complementary bevvy.

If you're talking widebody on something like 777, 747, or A380 JFK-SIN, you get this: