Discussion relating to the operations of MTA MetroNorth Railroad including west of Hudson operations and discussion of CtDOT sponsored rail operations such as Shore Line East and the Springfield to New Haven Hartford Line

Moderators: GirlOnTheTrain, nomis, FL9AC, Jeff Smith

  by railtrailbiker
 
Exit 38 of the Saw Mill River Parkway and an adjacent railroad crossing were expected to reopen this morning, two days after a commuter train smashed into a truck stuck on the tracks at Green Lane, injuring 29 passengers.

Metro-North Railroad workers spent yesterday rebuilding the crossing's foundations, gate arm, mast pole, motor, lights, signs, cable and electronic equipment, all of which were destroyed in the 8:37 a.m. crash. The repairs are expected to cost up to $100,000, Metro-North spokesman Dan Brucker said.

The truck driver, See Singchaichana, 43, of Federal Heights, Colo., got stuck at the crossing when his car trailer failed to clear the grade. He had been driving illegally on the parkway when he exited at Green Lane. He was issued four citations after the accident.

The front two cars of the six-car train that smashed into the car carrier are unsalvagable, Brucker said. The railroad hasn't decided whether to replace them. Purchasing new cars would cost at least $1.8 million apiece. The four rear cars, whose undercarriages were damaged, will be repaired at a total cost of about $100,000, he said.

The railroad was not notified about the disabled truck in its path in time to stop the train before the accident. One man who was at the crossing before the train hit the car carrier said yesterday he first tried to call the railroad's emergency number, posted at the railroad crossing, before dialing 911.

"As I was going over the tracks, I saw this guy's back wheels spinning, with smoke coming off them, and said, 'This guy's stuck,'" recalled Mike Pilotta, who lives in Croton Falls but has a lawn irrigation business on Green Lane. "I backed up, looking for a number, but the call wouldn't go through. I don't know if it was my Nextel phone that did it. So I hung up and called 911. The driver was too busy trying to get the truck off the tracks. He was just trying to move and was in such a panic he wasn't thinking clearly."

Metropolitan Transportation Authority police confirmed a call had been attempted from the area Monday morning, Brucker said. Calls to the emergency number from cell phones and a Nextel phone went through yesterday.

Pilotta said he talked the driver into getting off the truck, explaining that a commuter train would be coming through.

"The next thing I know, I heard the horn blow and the train hit that trailer," Pilotta said. "He ran holding his head screaming when the train hit the truck."

Pilotta said he tried to assist people on the train but left after emergency services arrived.

"I was a little shook up the rest of the day," he said.

MTA police determined that Singchaichana had failed to use his CB radio or call 911 for help, Brucker said. They also learned that he had become lost trying to return to a highway and attempted to turn his truck around on the grade crossing at Green Lane.

http://www.thejournalnews.com/newsroom/ ... nfolo.html

  by hoharold
 
"Metro-North Railroad workers spent yesterday rebuilding the crossing's foundations, gate arm, mast pole, motor, lights, signs, cable and electronic equipment, all of which were destroyed in the 8:37 a.m. crash. The repairs are expected to cost up to $100,000, Metro-North spokesman Dan Brucker said."

While this money was being spent on the railroad infrastructure was anyone from Metro North, State DOT, Westchester County, Town of Bedford or any other agency responsible for this little section of real estate doing anything to re-grade this crossing so this type of accident CAN NOT happen again? Or will we wait for another rig this time hauling a thirty ton piece of construction machinery to high-center on this crossing and really cause a disaster?

Any highway construction engineer worth his degree can clearly see the potential for this to happen again here if the crossing grades are not changed (modernized as high level platforms and concrete ties, ribbon rail, etc.) Did they forget the most obvious? Or are actual safety improvments just too expensive...? Which is cheaper fatality lawsuits or preventative restructuring of a crossing?

I recall another grade crossing accident at Peekskill involving a low-boy trailer recently. In that case the rig was off the edge of the crossing hung up in the track. Any changes made there? New fencing, guard rail, etc.? The drivers who make bad judgement calls get what they get... Railroad passengers should not be in that kind of preventable jeopardy.

  by DutchRailnut
 
the crossing is on a curve so there will always be a high side due to rail banking.

  by Otto Vondrak
 
hoharold- respectfully, I trust you've never actually been to this location in person.

The railroad is on its own level grade, somewhat higher than the roadways nearby. Green Lane is downhill into the crossing, level over the crossing, then downgrade again into the Saw Mill Parkway northbound. The railroad was there first (since 1847). If the railroad was lowered any, it would be prone to flooding from the adjacent Saw Mill River (and its 45-mile drainage ditch, the Saw Mill River Parkway). How do you suggest we "re-grade" the crossing?

I would close Green Lane crossing if it were up to me... it would require people travelling northbound on the Saw Mill Parkway to exit at Bedford Road/NY 117 about a mile north. I would leave Green Lane crossing intact for emergency vehicle access (police and fire, and MN MoW).

Of course, I'm only making observations as an amateur highway engineer (ie, I'm totally unqualified).

-otto-

  by hoharold
 
Otto, I'm not a highway engineer either but I spent a great deal of time behind the wheel of large trucks with various types of trailers high and low clearance. "The railroad was there first" is a rather cavalier attitude where safety is a concern and in no way solves the problem.

Yes,I have been over Green Lane many times though not with a rig. Why would you try to lower the TRACKS when you can raise the ROAD surface for a distance out from the high side (Saw Mill side) and feather it down in a more gentle vertical radius thus lessening the chance of a hi-center situation AT THE TRACKS. Nothing involving track work would need to be done. Granted it would involve "MOOLAH" but it sure can be done.

I agree Green Lane could be closed to the Parkway as are dangerous intersections up here on the Taconic Parkway recently. But, there had to be many fatal accidents over many years for these closures to make it through all the red tape. Granted Green Lane is a hazard but it is likely to remain open as local drivers use it regularly as a short cut to Rt. 117. The chance is very good that another "lost" southbound trucker off I684 will see Green Lane as an "escape route" again and as they say on TV, "Badda Bing"!


In my ex-truck cab view and I believe from a Metro North engineer's cab view, if you can lessen the potential for any crossing accident it's worth the cost and effort. Those are the kind of adrenalin rushes nobody likes believe me!

  by Otto Vondrak
 
harold- what I meant by "the railroad was there first" was similar to your suggestion- the roadway and not the railway should be modified in some way to remedy the situation. Not certain that there is enough room on the Saw Mill side to feather out the road as you suggested, which leads me to believe that the easiest and safest solution is to close exit 38.

-otto-

  by Lackawanna484
 
The NY Times also picked up the comment that the motorist attempted to dial the MetroNorth 800# listed on the box, but was unable to get thru.

I don't know if MN marks its boxes, but NJ Transit stencils its gate crossing boxes with the line name, milepost (two decimals) street crossing and municipality. The 800 number is usually in print several inches high, easily visible, as was the MetroNorth #.
  by railtrailbiker
 
A railroad crossing in Bedford Hills, N.Y., where a Metro-North commuter train crashed into a tractor-trailer on Monday had been the site of four other accidents in the last eight years, including a fatal one, according to Federal Railroad Administration records.

A Metro-North spokesman said yesterday that the accidents were all caused by driver error, but a transportation safety expert questioned the safety of the crossing, which has warning lights and gates.

"If there have been that many accidents in that space of time, I think that the highway department and the railroad have to get together and address the problem," James Hall, the former chairman of the National Transportation Safety Board, said.

On Monday, an 18-wheel truck became stuck on the tracks. Twenty-nine passengers on the six-car train were taken to the hospital. None of the injuries were life-threatening.

"If a grade crossing is considered unsafe, that's a decision that's made by the New York State Department of Transportation or the town, not Metro-North," Dan Brucker, a spokesman for Metro-North, said. "But I can tell you, every incident that occurred at that crossing was the result of driver error."

James Blair, a member of the Metro-North Rail Commuter Council, a watchdog group, said he thought Metro-North had improved safety at the crossing. But he said that with five accidents in eight years, it should take another look.

Lee V. A. Roberts, the town supervisor, met with state Department of Transportation officials yesterday to raise concerns about heavy traffic on Green Lane. The meeting was scheduled before the accident, but she said it underscored her concerns. She said more meetings are planned.

Frankie Pitrulle, 60, who saw the crash on Monday, said he had witnessed many car-train accidents.

"It's probably just not set up the way it should be to make it safe," said Mr. Pitrulle, who works for Bedford Hills Glass and Body, several hundred feet from the crossing. "The amount of traffic you have now is not what it was set up for."

Michael C. Palotta, who owns a lawn irrigation company with offices on Green Lane, said he saw the accident coming as he drove along Green Lane to the Saw Mill Parkway.

Realizing that the truck was stuck and that the train was about to come through, Mr. Palotta said he stopped and persuaded the truck's driver, See Singchaichana, to get out of the cab. Mr. Palotta said he then used his cellphone to call the emergency number posted on the crossing gate, but the call would not go through.

"Then I called 911 and told them a truck was stuck on the train tracks at Green Lane and that they better stop the trains coming both north and south," he said. "They patched me through to someone else, and I told them the same thing."

Thinking the trains had been stopped, Mr. Palotta backed his car up Green Lane to a friend's auto body shop and asked if they could tow the truck off the tracks.

Then, he said, "I saw the gates go down and I said, 'They never stopped the trains.' "

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/09/23/nyregion/23train.html

  by hoharold
 
"If there have been that many accidents in that space of time, I think that the highway department and the railroad have to get together and address the problem," James Hall, the former chairman of the National Transportation Safety Board, said.

"If a grade crossing is considered unsafe, that's a decision that's made by the New York State Department of Transportation or the town, not Metro-North," Dan Brucker, a spokesman for Metro-North, said. "But I can tell you, every incident that occurred at that crossing was the result of driver error."

ABSOLUTELY BRILLIANT!



It appears there is roughly 300' of road from the tracks to the Parkway (using USGS topo courtesy of TerraServer). Too close for this amature highway engineer to call one way or the other for reducing the vertical radius.


Since it will be DECADES and a few deaths before this is begun to be resolved anyway, we'll all just have to sit back and watch the alien life forms from the planet "Politica" and it's moon "Appointus" (life forms with no sensory input) put on another "Boon & Doggle" show... Before any thing gets fixed here someone will have to WANT to fix it. And that means, "How much $$$$ can I or my brother in law get out of this?", again. Same old, same old. Any pols want to weigh in on how to expedite things? Oh, that's right polititions don't recognize railroads anymore!
  by Kurt
 
Does anyone have the car numbers that were involed in the accident. I believe the rear car was 8231, from the pictures in the news. I have a photo of the front of the train, takn from Norm Avenue, but I am, unable to see the # on it. I will try to post it in the near future.

  by DutchRailnut
 
as you can see here:
http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=79114
MNCR is not the only railroad to deal with blind and Dumb truck drivers. pay attention to sign ;-)
  by Kurt
 
Below is a link to a photo I took about an hour after the accident. I took it from behind Kohl's, on Norm Avenue. I was not able to get more of the side of the train, because EMS was still removing patients from the bus company parking lot and I did not want to get in the way.
http://naphotos.nerail.org/showpic/?200 ... 731858.jpg

  by Swedish Meatball
 
An expensive solution would be the quadrant-gate crossing system like School Street in Mystic, CT. The system can detect if a car is fouling and will drop the cab signals of the train. I believe the system was a million per crossing back in 2002.

  by DutchRailnut
 
At a milion dollar we could try to train the profesional truckers better. if as rail crew I made mistakes like that I would be suspended for 30 or 90 days, these guys hit overpasses and get tuck on crossings but no retribution like points off their licence, no you can't do that it effects their income. but let a railroader do someting wrong and the media and courts want their piece of meat.
There got to be 10 000 crossings in USA so are we gone spend a million on each ??? on Metro north alone we would need 57 million then.
Danbury branch 23 crossings
Waterbury Branch 8 crossings
Harlem line 21 crossings
Hudson line 5 crossings
Beacon line is not included due to lack of traffic.

  by Lackawanna484
 
DutchRailnut wrote:At a milion dollar we could try to train the profesional truckers better. if as rail crew I made mistakes like that I would be suspended for 30 or 90 days, these guys hit overpasses and get tuck on crossings but no retribution like points off their licence, no you can't do that it effects their income. but let a railroader do someting wrong and the media and courts want their piece of meat.
There got to be 10 000 crossings in USA so are we gone spend a million on each ??? on Metro north alone we would need 57 million then.
Danbury branch 23 crossings
Waterbury Branch 8 crossings
Harlem line 21 crossings
Hudson line 5 crossings
Beacon line is not included due to lack of traffic.
---------------------------------

The CSX tangent line from Hamlet NC east toward Wimington had that bottoming problem with lumber trucks. The county constucted a few speed bumps which caught any bottoming trucks before they made it to the rail crossing. Cheap, easy, so obviously not of interest to the fed or state government...