• Hampton Roads/Norfolk/Newport News NE Regional Service

  • Discussion related to Amtrak also known as the National Railroad Passenger Corp.
Discussion related to Amtrak also known as the National Railroad Passenger Corp.

Moderators: GirlOnTheTrain, mtuandrew, Tadman

  by jstolberg
 
Air travel out of Newport News is down significantly while Norfolk air travel hasn't changed much.
Newport News-Williamsburg International Airport data shows continuation of the steep decline in ridership that began following the March 9 end of Air Tran's Peninsula operations as part of a merger with Southwest Airlines.

According to the figures, 53,241 passengers took flights to or from the Newport News airport in August — a 48.1 percent decline from August, 2011 when 102,641 passengers used the facility.
http://www.dailypress.com/news/traffic/ ... 4652.story
  by gokeefe
 
jstolberg wrote:So for the sailors from Norfolk, the train is faster, cheaper and more comfortable than riding the bus.
That appears to be exactly the case, much to mine and I would think everyone else's surprise.

As with the previous discussions of SWA, fares such as these may actually have the potential to increase the size of the market. Which would mean that much as with LYH Northeast Regional we could see ridership numbers well in excess of original projections.

Out of curiosity I checked the NPN-WAS version of this trip and the fares were $5 cheaper each way with schedules that are about 42'' faster on average each way. I think we will learn a lot about just how much of a problem the point of departure from NPN really is.
  by Station Aficionado
 
With the decline in the number of flights in recent years, you've got to wonder about the future of Newport News-Williamsburg airport. It's sandwiched between Norfolk and Richmond. I imagine the competition to attract carriers is fierce, and some airports may end up pretty empty. Interesting that Newport News plans on putting one of their new trains stations right next to the airport.
  by gokeefe
 
jstolberg wrote:Air travel out of Newport News is down significantly while Norfolk air travel hasn't changed much.
Newport News-Williamsburg International Airport data shows continuation of the steep decline in ridership that began following the March 9 end of Air Tran's Peninsula operations as part of a merger with Southwest Airlines.

According to the figures, 53,241 passengers took flights to or from the Newport News airport in August — a 48.1 percent decline from August, 2011 when 102,641 passengers used the facility.
http://www.dailypress.com/news/traffic/ ... 4652.story
I thought the regional airport analysis which indicated a loss of 200,000 passengers between March and August was a pretty stunning figure. Another thing to wonder about with Amtrak service startup out of Norfolk and whether or not some of these travelers will be more attracted to this service than they are to service out of Newport News.
  by Station Aficionado
 
gokeefe wrote:Out of curiosity I checked the NPN-WAS version of this trip and the fares were $5 cheaper each way with schedules that are about 42'' faster on average each way. I think we will learn a lot about just how much of a problem the point of departure from NPN really is.
One thing we have no access to is Thruway ridership numbers. I wonder how much of NPN's ridership arrives on the bus from Norfolk. Or for that matter, how many drive over from Norfolk. FWIW, FY11 ridership at NPN was 122,438 or 335 per day. The city of Newport News obviously expect to continue generating decent ridership, as they're planning on replacing the current NPN with two stations--an unmanned one downtown and a full service station by the airport.
  by Station Aficionado
 
Arlington wrote:
gokeefe wrote: Greyhound
JAN 5: 8:00 AM - 8:05 PM, 12'5'', 2 Transfers, Richmond, VA; Springfield, VA
JAN 6: 9:55 AM - 6:25 PM, 8'30'', 2 Transfers, Springfield, VA; Richmond, VA
Total Fare: $106 (Includes Military Roundtrip Discount)
You're doing something wrong--probably insisting on the need to go to Washington Union Station--if you're getting a change in Springfield VA. When I search on Greyhound I get trips with a single change at Richmond, and a total trip time of about 5 to 6 hours. Just select "Washington DC' as your destination (not "Washington Union Station")
By odd coincidence, Greyhound closed its Washington terminal yesterday, and moved all operations to the parking garage at Union Station.
  by fauxcelt
 
Speaking as someone who was one of those "junior enlisted personnel" stationed in the Norfolk area from January 1979 to July 1982, I wish there had been Amtrak train service to and from Norfolk when I was stationed there. Since there was no local bus service at all from Norfolk to Newport News at the time, traveling from Norfolk to the Amtrak station in Newport News was impossible unless you had a car. Since I did not have a car, it was easier to go to the Greyhound station in downtown Norfolk and use Greyhound for the shorter trips such as going to Washington, D.C. for example. If Amtrak does not charge more than Greyhound and provides service which is as good as and convenient as Greyhound is offering right now, this new train service to and from Norfolk will take some customers away from Greyhound. This will be especially true if the train station in Norfolk is as easy to get to as the bus station is. Speaking from my own experience of traveling both by bus and train, I agree with the person who said that riding the train is more comfortable than riding the bus.

Laurence
  by ThirdRail7
 
gokeefe wrote:
jstolberg wrote:So for the sailors from Norfolk, the train is faster, cheaper and more comfortable than riding the bus.
That appears to be exactly the case, much to mine and I would think everyone else's surprise.

As with the previous discussions of SWA, fares such as these may actually have the potential to increase the size of the market. Which would mean that much as with LYH Northeast Regional we could see ridership numbers well in excess of original projections.

Out of curiosity I checked the NPN-WAS version of this trip and the fares were $5 cheaper each way with schedules that are about 42'' faster on average each way. I think we will learn a lot about just how much of a problem the point of departure from NPN really is.

Will this continue when the new funding plans kick in? Did we ever get a real answer on how much VA would have to pay for this BOS-NPN under the new funding mandate?
  by jstolberg
 
As a state-supported route, Virginia gets to set the fares. The fares certainly can change, however, the fares quoted were for January 2013.

If you remember, Amtrak wasn't issuing financial results for each route for almost a year, "due to financial changeover". During that time, the details of how costs would be allocated to each route and to the states were being ironed out. After the STB issued a final ruling, Amtrak advertised for a "special master" to review the details of the cost accounting during late May/early June and make sure that Amtrak was in full compliance with the STB ruling. A few weeks later, Amtrak issued an amended Monthly Performance Report for September 2011 with the route-specific financial results. Since then, they have been issuing the new Monthly Performance Reports with those route-specific financial results. I cannot say for sure, but my logical conclusion is that the financial results reported since May 2011 reflect the new cost allocation.

Since the Washington-Newport News route is showing a profit for the first 10 months of FY 2012, I don't expect that the Commonwealth of Virginia will see a great need to raise fares. Of course, the third daily train to the Hampton Roads area will raise the cost side of the equation and we have yet to see how the revenue side responds.
  by afiggatt
 
ThirdRail7 wrote: Will this continue when the new funding plans kick in? Did we ever get a real answer on how much VA would have to pay for this BOS-NPN under the new funding mandate?
The answers can be found in the Virginia DRPT budget documents which are publicly available.

The amounts that Virginia DRPT has allocated for the operating subsidy and capital charges for FY13 and projected out to FY18 are listed in the FY13 Six Year projection budget. It has the budget breakdown listings for all the rail program expenditures and can be found on the Virginia DRPT Finance page at http://www.drpt.virginia.gov/about/Finance.aspx. Click on the FY2013 - Revised listing under DRPT Six Year Improvement Plans. Pages 58 to 64 have the passenger and freight rail projected expenditures with pg 61 listing the projected operating subsidies. Worth a read for those interesting in seeing just how much funding Virginia is providing for freight and passenger rail projects. Very modest compared to roads & highways, but quite respectable compared to most states.

Even if the service runs at a net operating profit, there should be a subsidy reserve amount in place so if there is a sudden fall-off in ridership due to a recession or unexpected problems, the account can be tapped to keep the train running for a while. Anyway, the amount set aside for Norfolk in FY14 is $233K, $486K in FY15. For Lynchburg, $169K for Fy14, $691K for FY15. There is a PRIIA requirements line for what appears to be all the trains of $3.6 million for FY14 and $4.9 million for FY15. There is also a Capital Equipment Contribution of $1.1 million for FY14 and $3 million for FY15. Not really costing VA much to support the VA Regionals.

If the Virginia Regionals don't use the budgeted subsidy allocation, I hope that the funds can either be carried forward into the next year to free up funds or re-allocated for capital improvement projects such as extending service to Roanoke. My guess is that the Capital Equipment Contribution has to be paid regardless of operating surplus, but combined with the other eastern states, it could provide Amtrak with a income stream to help pay for the purchase of Amfleet replacements.

The document shows that VA is spending $114 million for the Norfolk extension and should have $22 million in FY14 and $31 million in FY15 allocated for Capacity Improvements for Expanded Intercity Rail. Might be used for CSX upgrades to get to 3 daily trains to Norfolk.

BTW, page 62 shows the funds allocated to Buckingham Branch Railroad under the Shortline preservation program with decent sized amounts going to the Washington and North Mountain subdivisions which the Cardinal runs over. For all the fuss raised in the railroad forums over the Cardinal and the BBRR tracks, VA is providing significant funding to get the tracks into better condition.
  by jstolberg
 
Now, time to get the crews qualified on the NS trackage.
http://www.amtrak.com/ccurl/718/771/Amt ... 12-091.pdf
Starting Friday, October 5, Amtrak will begin operating trains to serve as training for locomotive engineers and conductors to learn the tracks and territory between Petersburg and Norfolk, Va. These trains will carry no passengers and will operate two times per day, Monday through Saturday.
  by gokeefe
 
Here is a PR Newswire Release from NS describing speed increases between Norfolk and Petersburg that are being put in place in anticipation of Amtrak service from NFK.
NORFOLK, Va., Oct. 4, 2012 -- /PRNewswire/ -- In preparation for the start of Amtrak passenger rail service between Norfolk and Richmond in December, Amtrak will begin operating trains to qualify train crews at 79 mph beginning in mid-October. These trains will not be carrying passengers. The speed increase will be effective on Norfolk Southern's tracks between Portlock Yard in Chesapeake and downtown Suffolk, and between downtown Suffolk and Petersburg. Train speeds through downtown Suffolk will increase from 40 mph to 60 mph in the summer of 2013.
  by Arlington
 
gokeefe wrote:Here is a PR Newswire Release from NS describing speed increases between Norfolk and Petersburg that are being put in place in anticipation of Amtrak service from NFK.
NORFOLK, Va., Oct. 4, 2012 -- /PRNewswire/ -- ... Train speeds through downtown Suffolk will increase from 40 mph to 60 mph in the summer of 2013.
Anyone know what the delay in downtown Suffolk is? Is there a lesser-protected grade crossing, or more of track/MOW issue?
  by The EGE
 
There are 7 grade crossings in under a mile, plus the at-grade freight interchange. I imagine speeds over a diamond are limited.

Additionally, Suffolk is an obvious choice for an infill station in a few years, so there's no sense getting speeds terribly high through town.
  by gokeefe
 
60 MPH is actually pretty good, all things considered. The Downeaster will be lucky to do anything more than 45 MPH heading north through Deering (one of the neighborhoods on the north side of Portland).
  • 1
  • 16
  • 17
  • 18
  • 19
  • 20
  • 49