Greenbush Line and South Station capacity

i have a question, how is South Station going to handle all the traffic when the greenbush line opens? South Station is already packed w/ trains during rush hours (peak hours) and they also have to deal w/ Amtrak. There is no room to add more tracks, so will the T have to cut some service's on other lines to fit Greenbush service in the station?

MBTA F40PH-2C 1050 wrote:i have a question, how is South Station going to handle all the traffic when the greenbush line opens? South Station is already packed w/ trains during rush hours (peak hours) and they also have to deal w/ Amtrak. There is no room to add more tracks, so will the T have to cut some service's on other lines to fit Greenbush service in the station?

That at times seems to be one of those things that no one is willing to talk about. I've had the opportunity to hear some former state folks with an interest in transportation (Fred Salvucci, Mike Dukakis) mention this, but no one currently in office.

Greenbush might not be the final breaking point, but if more Fairmont service AND Fall River/New Bedford were to happen (admittedly a long shot for the latter), then you'd be talking about a serious clog.

It will be a bit more challenging for the Terminal Dispatcher, but it will be able to be done without cutting any existing services. One way is to reduce the amount of time equipment sits in the terminal.

A little while back I heard of the USPS leaving their roost next to South Station and having South Station facilities expanded, both passenger and track space. Perhaps this though is caught up in the same black hole as a new North Station.

-JH

OK, if that DOES happen, I can see a case for adding lower level platforms for a N/S rail link. However, there'd still be a problem at the North Staion end. (Sigh.) It'd sure be cool to see the original 26 (it WAS 26, wasn't it?) tracks put back in! (Although, concidering platform widths, even if they HAD that much space again, I'd bet they'd be lucky to get more than 19 or 20 tracks in.)

To me there are three options available to expand tracks and platforms:
- Tear down the Postal Service building and replace it with tracks and platforms. This building is slated to be replaced anyway.
- Add a second level of tracks and platforms elevated above the existing platforms.
- Add a second level of tracks and platforms tunneled below the existing platforms.

I would also like to the see the old abandoned (and blocked) underground loop restored, so that electrified commuter rail could use it in the future. I think if they demolished the Postal building this would be possible to do.

As for the Postal Annex being closed, that's the first I have heard about it.

Charlie, I hate to break it to ya, but the ideas you have are impossible:

Can't build above the existing platforms due to the bus terminal (and there are still talks about the hotel being built on top of that).

Can't dig below because of all the re-configuring that was done with the Big Dig to accomodate the Silver Line and the I-93 northbound lanes. (I'm guessing you missed the special on Modern Marvels, lol.

CSX Conductor wrote:As for the Postal Annex being closed, that's the first I have heard about it.

Charlie, I hate to break it to ya, but the ideas you have are impossible:

Can't build above the existing platforms due to the bus terminal (and there are still talks about the hotel being built on top of that).

Can't dig below because of all the re-configuring that was done with the Big Dig to accomodate the Silver Line and the I-93 northbound lanes. (I'm guessing you missed the special on Modern Marvels, lol.

I've heard the idea of relocating the postal annex kicked around for some time now in some of the "talking heads" meetings and forums over the years. Apparently the Post Office has for some time wished to modernize their Boston facility...either through renovations where they are, or a relocation. Considering this opportunity, some commentators have suggested an agreement between the state and the USPS to move them elsewhere in return for the land adjacent to South Station. Of course, knowing the political climate right now, that would probably get scrapped in favor of selling off the development rights to the USPS property w/o any regard to preserving the room for South Station to grow.

" Of course, knowing the political climate right now, that would probably get scrapped in favor of selling off the development rights to the USPS property w/o any regard to preserving the room for South Station to grow.
"
To qouth Shakespear,
"What fools these mortals be."

Cosmo wrote:" Of course, knowing the political climate right now, that would probably get scrapped in favor of selling off the development rights to the USPS property w/o any regard to preserving the room for South Station to grow.
"
To qouth Shakespear,
"What fools these mortals be."

The T's budget shortfalls might become the biggest obstacle to aquiring land in pricey locales for key infrastructure expansion, as one examines the current top real estate priority:

T reaps millions from sales of land
But agency wrestles with deficit, $4.9b debt

The most economically feasible and constructable solution for track and platform increase is to demolish the USPS property, and then build a new high-rise building to replace it, with most of the ground level reserved for new tracks and platforms. The MBTA could either buy the property outright, or buy an easement from the developer of the new building for the gound level tracks and platform space.

I think with this arrangement, the old underground loop could also be resetablished for future commuter rail use.

Presumably the building in between South Station and USPS (Stone & Webster?) would also have to come down.

Not Necessarily. Looking at Google Earth aerial photos, there's enough length on the USPS property to install platforms as long as the longest ones at North Station. There would be enough room left to the south to fit in the reverse curve trackage necessary to join with the existing tracks, and still avoid the new Big Dig vent building.

The Stone and Webster building could stay, even though it wouldn't break any hearts if it were to come down, I'm sure. There could be a wide covered pedestrian walkway built between along the south side of it, connecting the new platforms to South Station.

Above the new tracks and platforms could be developed a few new high rise buildings. It seems that this high rise development would pay for the cost of acquiring the USPS property and building the tracks and platforms.

I hate to be a downer, "CharlieMTA," but the reverse loops under South Sta. are gone for good. One half of the tunnle and it's approach were obliterated by the USPS building back in the day, the other half was mostly obfuscated by the late 80s/early 90s construction. The only remnants are in the subway station. I belive you pass through a portion going down to the Red Line from the Cmain concourse.
Also, the tunnle radius was WAY too tight for modern commuter equipment.
Sorry,
Cosmo

Not to sound negative, but why so much interest in the old loop being brought back if it was possible........it's not like it would be used for revenie service and many would not even see it. Besides, there is no need for it as there are two ways to turn trains just outside of South Station: 1) The loop in Southampton Street yard 2) Using the Dorchester Main, Wye Connector and Northeast Corridor.