Freight trackage rights over NJT?

OCtrainguy wrote:"Isn't the entire Southern Secondary owned by NJT?"

NJT owns most of the current Southern Secondary, according to the information I have read. There is a stretch of track from South Lakewood to Lakehurst that was owned by Conrail. With the breakup of Conrail, I don't know if Conrail Shared Assets is the current owner of that section of track or not. It would be the area of the old sand pits. I believe the NJDOT bought that trackage in the late 1970s.

That stretch you are referring to is shown on an official 1997 NJ State Map as being owned by Clayton Sand .

Also don't forget...SRNJ actually has trackage rights on the AC Line between JERSEY and GRIFF interlockings...there's no freight action north of Lindenwold (rare deliveries to PATCO), but if any customers were to come on-line there, SRNJ would be the ones to serve them.

Mike DiMunno

Sort of off topic, but not really, but not really worthy of starting a new post, IMO....

Conrail does a significant amount of run through freight traffic between the Chemical Coast and the Amboy Secondary, between Wood adn Essay interlockings on the Coast Line. There is also the steel mill in Perth Amboy which seems to ship out at least a dozen to two dozen cars daily.

Anyway, yesterday was an exciting day for freight on the Coast Line. The dispatcher didn't pull up the signal at CQ (where the Church and Essay running tracks meet and the end of NJT control) in time for a westbound freight that was leaving the Coast Line at Essay (SA42 was teh crew). This was a VERY LONG train....I couldn't hear the car count, but it had to be at least 30 cars, probably more.

Well, when the dispatcher finally realized that he didn't bring up the signal, and brought it up for them, it was too late, as the train already stopped, and then of course, they coulnd't get going again!!! There was actually a freight stalled on teh coast line!!! It was very funny to listen to! The dispatcher kept asking "are you guys pulling? You're still fouling River and Essay" The engineer would come back adn say "we're trying, but we're not doing so well" So they went back and forth a few times, adn finally the engineer said "we're stalled here, I can't get 'er movin" So then the Coast Line dispatcher, who already had to quickly stop a westbound before it passed through Wood so he could reroute them if necessary, said for them to make a cut and double up the hill to clear up. The engineer said okay, but let me try once more.......and low and behold, they got the trian moving, adn eventually it cleared up.

Never a dull moment!

My mom's hometown is Perth Amboy. I will go back there someday.

njt/mnrrbuff wrote:My mom's hometown is Perth Amboy. I will go back there someday.

I was born there and I lived there a while. My mom grew up there and so did I. I grew up on First Street. I'll be heading there tomorrow to see my grandma.

I LOVE Perth Amboy. Not sure why. Yes, people call it the ghetto and all but to me, it feels like home. The Raritan bridge is a great railfanning spot too.

Back in the days of Conrail in the 80 and 90's, The Bergen Line was home to some pretty heavy frieght bound for the Southern Teir.

After the split up, the Bergen Line now only sees a few drills every week.

I specifically remember watching intermodal trains every other day lead by 5 or 6 units. It was so cool! Sometimes it was a whole string of Conrail U-Boats and you could hear them burping out their exhaust for miles as they pulled their train around the bend by Sun Chemical in East Rutherford.

The coolest frieght I ever say was an entire Military supply train in the late 80's that was fully loaded with jeeps, helicopters, ammunition cars, tanks, etc... anything military, it was on that train...

Where are Jersey and Griff Interlockings? Does Conrail have any of the AC Line, or is it all SRNJ?

Are the NE Corridor north of Waverly and Raritan Valley from Aldene to Waverly the only sections of NJT or Amtrak track without freight trackage rights?

Edit: forgot the Princeton Branch.

SPUI wrote:Where are Jersey and Griff Interlockings? Does Conrail have any of the AC Line, or is it all SRNJ?

CP JERSEY (or just JERSEY on the NJT system) is located at milepost B2.3...that B-prefix means 2.3 miles from SHORE...JERSEY is just on the railroad-south side of the Delair Bridge. All of the following mileposts begin at JERSEY.

GRIFF interlocking is at milepost 55.9...that's 4.2 miles from Atlantic City station...it's the junction of the SRNJ Pleasantville Runner with the Atlantic City Line...

Conrail has the right to use the AC Line between WESTFIELD AVENUE (milepost 1.3, junction HATCH INDUSTRIAL TRACK), and PARK AVENUE (milepost 2.1, junction PEMBERTON INDUSTRIAL TRACK). The CA-20 uses this 0.8 mile segment of track 3 days a week to run out to Mt. Holly...but no local traffic along this segment. Any local traffic that were to arise would be handled by SRNJ.

Mike DiMunno

I finally got a response from NJ Transit: It's very strange that Woodmansie-Winslow is mentioned - that's the abandoned Southern Secondary south of Lakehurst.

Who operates freight service on the old CNJ east of Aldene, or is that supposed to be in the first list?

Dan,

Here is my version of the list:

Lines that NJT owns but no one operates over them:
(Note that NJDOT (not NJT) is responsible for other lines, such as CNJ Southern from Winslow to Vineland and Lackawanna Cutoff)

Former Erie Main Line (what NJT Called the Bergen County Line) from HX Interlocking to the west limits of West End interlocking - removed from service as part of the Secaucus project. Tracks removed. Portion being converted to NJ Turnpike Exit road.

Most of Harrison Kingsland (except stubs at each end operated by NS)

CNJ Main Line from High Bridge to east of Bloomsbury (NS operates Bloomsbury - Alpha)

CNJ Main Line from Alpha to Greens Bridge

Ex CNJ Matawan - Freehold Branch (Most has been leased to Monmouth County for conversion to the Henry Hudson Trail)

Ex PRR between Farmingdale and Freehold - a few miles of this line is technically operated by Conrail but has been out of service for years.

Ex CNJ Southern Division from Woodmansie to Winslow Jct.

Ex PRR Pemberton Branch from Camden to Merchantville

Ex PRSL Ocean City Branch from Palermo to Ocean City

Ex PRSL Cape May Point Branch

I think that's all of them.

OK, now NJT owned lines used by others solely for non-NJT service:

Harrison-Kingsland Branch:
At Kingsland, the east leg of the wye is still used. (NS)
At Harrison, the line is used from the connection with the Morristown line north to the Harrison Ave. UG Bridge. (NS)

Raritan Valley Line Bloomsbury to Alpha (NS operates to serve one customer). (NS)

Former RVL from Greens Bridge to Phillipsburg (NS Lehigh Line was relocated onto the former CNJ alignment several years ago to allow abandonment of the former Lehigh Valley bridge over the Delaware River). (NS)

Ex PRR Freehold Secondary from NJT/Conrail system post (center of Freehold) to end of freight service at Oakerson Road in Freehold Township. (Conrail)

Also from Junction with Southern Secondary in Farmingdale to Gold Lumber in Farmingdale. (Conrail)

Ex CNJ SOuthern from Red Bank to MP 63.0 (south of Lakewood). Conrail owns from MP 63.0 to MP 65.9 (Lakehurst) where Clayton Sand ownership begins. (Conrail)

Ex PRR Pemberton Branch from jct with Atlantic City Line to NJT/Conrail System Post at I-295 in Mount Laurel (Conrail)

Ex PRSL Vineland Secondary: NJT owns three disconected sections:

A short stub in Camden north of Brown leading to a scrapyard (NOT the Van Hook Cutoff) (Conrail?)

MP 1.9 to 3.1 (Conrail) (need to check on the mileposts, but it's something like that).

From NJ 55 UG Bridge to Glassboro (Conrail)

Former PRSL Cape May Branch from Winslow Jct to Tuckahoe (Conrail)

Former PRSL Ocean City Branch from Tuckahoe to Palermo (Conrail)

Former PRSL Cape May Branch from Tuckahoe to Cape May (Cape May Seashore Lines)



One other note: CNJ East of Aldene:

Aldene - Elizabeth Station: Conrail

Elizabeth Station parcel, and ROW from Broad Street to next UG bridge to west: NJT

Broad Street Elizabeth to E'port Yard: CSX

ROW east of Chemical Coast Line: NS

Gravelyfan...you mention NJ Cut Off as not showing on any list here...that is because it is non existant: it is, in part, a right of way not owned by any public agency or entity nor owned by any railroad. Conrail dismantled and sold the real estate as real estate.

sullivan1985 wrote:I was told by an NJT engineer before that the Main & Bergen County Line is NJT Owned and that NS only has operating rights between rush hours and at night.

The formatting is a bit weird; it took me a little while to realize that what's being said is the Main/Bergen Line north of Suffern.

SPUI wrote:

sullivan1985 wrote:I was told by an NJT engineer before that the Main & Bergen County Line is NJT Owned and that NS only has operating rights between rush hours and at night.

The formatting is a bit weird; it took me a little while to realize that what's being said is the Main/Bergen Line north of Suffern.

There was a thread recently about the line north of Suffern. Pennsylvania Lines LLC owns it, MetroNorth holds the passenger operating rights on it, and NY MTA owns an option to purchase the line from Pennsy before 2019. Pennsy is the NS company which actually operates NS's share of Conrail. NJT dispatches the section Port Jervis and east, on behalf of MetroNorth.

For the line south of Suffern, I believe NJ owns the Bergen County Line and the Main Line up to the post at the north end of Suffern yard. NS has rights to serve freight customers along both lines, subject to NJT dispatching.

I've heard NJT DS discussing moves with commuter trains that predicate an NS local on the southbound main track at BT / Passaic Jct. Usually in the context of "operate at reduced speed." NJT DS tends to be as helpful as they can be