Farewell to PCC's on the Mattapan High-Speed Line?

I remember 3230. That car looked worse than 3232 (the one that was scrapped).

F-line to Dudley via Park wrote: The M is DEFINITELY not being abandoned this shutdown. The T is sinking millions into rebuilding the Ashmont ramp to meet the weight standards of modern vehicles, and as that is the most expensive single part of making the line LRV-compatible (the others being new electrical substations and catanery, replacement track, and reinforcement of the small bridges) the T would not be doing that if they weren't going to bring the line immediately back (not to mention they just dropped a wad rehabbing all the cars). The danger to the M is more medium- and long-term with the car fleet. 10 cars is barely enough to cover existing service and not even enough to run multiple-car train rush hour service, and there are no replacement plans being kicked around yet. If they lose any cars before the PCC's life expectancy is over, then you've got an acute car shortage and all the worrisome implications that brings (given past history). But that's still a ways away. Mattapan will definitely be reactivated after the reconstruction at Ashmont.

Or, put it this way...if the T either drops the ramp reconstruction at the last second or decides to do permanent bustitution via BRT instead of reactivation they will get sued by so many more groups than are suing them over Arborway they wouldn't even think about pulling a fast one here.

The rail service to mattapan might be safe, but ESPECIALLY if they are putting catenary up, the PCC's are gone, unless they put pantographs on the PCC's which i doubt.

It's the PCC's that are the worry, i would be extremely suprized if they survive, although i would sure hope jwhite is correct!!!

So does that mean if they want to run LRV's they'd have to either instal catenary or put trolley poles on 'em?
(Forgive my ignorance, Master.)
Cosmo

Monday night I went to the MBTA Rider Oversight Committee meeting, and Dan Grabauskas the GM was there! He was asked about Boeing LRVs ever going down to the Mattapan high-speed line. He said they wouldn't.

The topic came up when Grabauskas gave an update on the Type 8 order status and the deal with the new Breda management, and how they expected to have all the old LRVs out of the fleet after the last of the Bredas were accepted. He was asked specifically about Boeings going to the Ashmont-Mattapan line and he and the new MBTA chief operating officer who was also there (I didn't get his name) both confirmed that the Boeings have outlived their useful life even with the rebuild program.

Back in this thread there was speculation about LRVs to Mattapan, but now it's official that they won't. Too bad; I hope the money can be found to keep the PCCs going.

The last I heard was, the plan was replacing the trolley wires and keeping the PCC's, unless we have official information to the contrary?

-otto-

Cosmo wrote:So does that mean if they want to run LRV's they'd have to either instal catenary or put trolley poles on 'em?

That's correct.

Cosmo wrote:So does that mean if they want to run LRV's they'd have to either instal catenary or put trolley poles on 'em?
(Forgive my ignorance, Master.)
Cosmo

They could also do the solution that was done on the Green Line in the PCC/LRV overlap era and do catanery that supports both pole and panto operation. The M is pretty much a straight shot from Ashmont to Mattapan yard...wouldn't be many places outside of the yard where they'd need the dual-use wire hangers.

But I don't think they're doing that. There's no compelling reason to upgrade the overhead now unless a car order or Type 7/Type 8 transfer to the M is imminent. They can't even do it anyway until a substation is installed, those last couple bridges get some work, and the track gets replaced with less-crooked looking rails (use your imagination how many feet a Type 8 would go before derailing on the current trackage).. Right now the only thing budgeted for is the Ashmont ramp reconstruction and some minor upgrades to the intermediate stations. They're just getting the Ashmont ramp out of the way now while that station is being reconstructed because if the line ever does get LRV-upgraded that'll be the most resource-intensive upgrade required. The other individual pieces of the upgrade, whenever they decide to do it, would all be comparatively much smaller jobs.

It's possible that during the shutdown they'll be replacing the actual trolley wire with new trolley wire to last until the PCC's are done in a decade. I'm sure the poles and wiring are in just as crap-awful and falling-apart shape as the rails after decades of deferred maintenance.

Otto Vondrak wrote: The last I heard was, the plan was replacing the trolley wires and keeping the PCC's, unless we have official information to the contrary?

-otto-

Even if there is no information out currently, things change rather rapidly on the T. Just out of curiosity, where did you hear that from? I really hope your right and they dont change theyre minds!!!

Wouldn't it be something if they upgraded the M line with good quality rail and put type 8's down there. If they are going to put any other type of car besides a PCC, it would need to be Handicap accessible. Imagine the T trying to deal with lift operations with the Boeings or 7's? They might as well run the 8's.
(Happy New Year Everyone)

That wouldnt make any sense, especially since they are filling the order of 8's now. they wouldn't put the newest equipment out on the line with the lowest ridership. it would actually make more since to put the boeings out on that line, there are only a few, which is still more than needed! and they replaced the PCC's once already, so it would seem to be the most logical for them to take over again.
From what i understood (correct me if im wrong) the T got funding from the govt (state or fed i dont know) to rehab the PCC cars, this money would have to be reimbursed by the T if the cars werent used in service for the minimum amount of time contracted with the fund source, now this is not known as fact but is what i have been told from a reliable source, could someone confirm this as fact/fiction?

My favored outcome:
Boston keeps the PCC's, The LRV's retire when the rest of the 8's come in so the Seashore Trolley Museum can get at least 1 and I get to run it regularly in service!!! (not that i want the LRV's out of Boston i just want to play with one, dont mean to be selfish but that would rock completely!)

What happened to the Newark, NJ PCCs? Are they available for purchase by the T or anyone else?

Ron Newman wrote:What happened to the Newark, NJ PCCs? Are they available for purchase by the T or anyone else?

I can't account for every car in the fleet (which wasn't that big, just a dozen or so cars), but some went to museums and some are being retained by New Jersey Transit for a future operation in the former Bayonne navy yard, a new loop of a mile or so that will connect a new real estate development with the existing Hudson-Bergen Light Rail line.

http://railroad.net/articles/railfannin ... /index.php

There were 22 cars in the NJT Newark fleet. 15 were just purchased by San Francisco Muni, 6 were sent to Bayonne for a projected development there. That leaves... 1, and I dont think NJT is going to part company with it.

Maybe you guys can get some of Bob Diamond's junker PCC's stored in Brooklyn. He had three Boston cars in his fleet, and actually restored two of them before going belly up. 3321 and 3303 were opertational, 3299 was stored. The rest of them are ex-Cleveland cars that need A LOT of work. Not to mention they have been stored idle in the elements for the last two years.

-otto-

Regarding the overhead wire work - from what I've heard from a reliable source, this wire will continue to be for trolley poles only and specifically not for pantographs. I believe the line poles are being replaced, not the wires themselves.

JD

So- did the shutdown begin? I can't find anything on the MBTA site.

-otto-

Not yet, nothing that I know of at least yet in terms of the shutdown.