Extending 33rd St. trains to Newark

Why can't some trains go from 33rd st to Newark and back? Is it just a lack of demand?

Lack of slots west of Journal Square when WTC-Newark trains run, most like. The Hudson & Manhattan set things up like that; not easy to break the mold they set.

After 9/11, trains operated between 33rd Street and Newark.

Irish Chieftain wrote:Lack of slots west of Journal Square when WTC-Newark trains run, most like. The Hudson & Manhattan set things up like that; not easy to break the mold they set.

After 9/11, trains operated between 33rd Street and Newark.

Why is that? There are two tracks into Newark. A train can enter into the station on either track and leave on either track, correct? If you had service every 5-6 minutes for each line you could do quick turns just like is done in Hoboken.

Frogger wrote:

Irish Chieftain wrote:Lack of slots west of Journal Square when WTC-Newark trains run, most like. The Hudson & Manhattan set things up like that; not easy to break the mold they set.

After 9/11, trains operated between 33rd Street and Newark.

Why is that? There are two tracks into Newark. A train can enter into the station on either track and leave on either track, correct? If you had service every 5-6 minutes for each line you could do quick turns just like is done in Hoboken.

The problem may not necessarily be the station, but the capacity of the westbound track (G) between Journal Square and Newark. That may change if and when the new signal system goes in service (ATC? CBTC?).

Hoboken and Newark Penn are like night and day. Only way for trains to cross from one track to the other in Newark is to go west of the station platforms. Going through Harrison, the PATH tracks are the outer tracks of the NEC—the next crossover is somewhere in the vicinity of Meadows Yard in Kearny. I recall several instances of single-track PATH operation where they had to reduce service between Newark and WTC.

Wouldn't that just be duplicating the NEC route between Newark Penn and NY Penn?

Of course, but people would always opt for cheaper, especially since Secaucus Junktion eliminated NJT's speed advantage…

Not to mention direct downtown access other than WTC and 24/7 service

Really, the two-seat ride on PATH is not that bad.

Irish Chieftain wrote:Really, the two-seat ride on PATH is not that bad.

Not at all, there are parts of New York from which it takes longer than from any stop on the PATH. If you go back to the first post, i was just curious what the limiting factor was. HOB goes to two places i was wondering if there was a reason NWK didn't.

Anything is possible, but I think the reason has to do with the crowds at Newark. If they had two lines running through there, then figure that half of the people on the platforms would remain on the platforms when one train departs (then get on the second train since that would be their line). You'd end up with less crowded trains but the platforms would be ridiculously overcrowded (worse than they already are in the mornings now).

If there were a second PATH track available at Newark, I'm sure they could work out direct service to WTC and 33rd.

arrow wrote: If there were a second PATH track available at Newark, I'm sure they could work out direct service to WTC and 33rd.

doesn't PATH already have 2 tracks?

Frogger wrote:doesn't PATH already have 2 tracks?

They do, but the track arrangement is basically useless for anything other than the way they're doing it. Unlike other PATH terminals, the tracks at Newark aren't at the same level (the B/C [departure] platforms are at the "normal" track level, and the track H platform [arrivals] is higher). More importantly (and someone please correct me if I'm wrong) is that there aren't crossovers between the two tracks just north of the station, so when a train comes in on the "arrival" track, there's no way to just change ends in the station, head out, and get crossed over to the normal "outbound" track. This would mean that you couldn't bring any more arrivals in until that train reached the first crossover (all the way up at Kearny, I believe, but don't hold me to that). This is why inbound PATH trains (under normal operation) pull in at track H and the continue south, as there are crossovers (and a storage yard) south of Newark Penn and they can turn the train there to pull into the "outbound" track.

While it's nice that the historic station has been preserved, in some ways, it's a shame, because I think it's holding back what I think would be several well-deserved improvements, among them realigning the PATH tracks. (Of course, the massive cost of such a project, which would basically redo the entire track level of the station, as well as Dock draw, would be another massive factor.)

I wonder if the proposed extension to EWR will offer any improvements? I think they would want to have service from both lines to the airport.

Another reason to conisder the added service will be the opening of the Newark Arena and then Red Bull Park in Harrison over the next two years.

While it's nice that the historic station has been preserved, in some ways, it's a shame, because I think it's holding back what I think would be several well-deserved improvements, among them realigning the PATH tracks. (Of course, the massive cost of such a project, which would basically redo the entire track level of the station, as well as Dock draw, would be another massive factor.)

Please, no more construction!! Newark PS is one of the few places I can go and not see any major construction happening around me. I think it works very well the way it's setup. The main point of raising the arrivals track must have been to allow everyone getting off the PATH train to access all of the westbound tracks below directly without having to go through the main Concourse.