Does anyone know where this "Trolley Graveyard" is located?

ExCon90 wrote:The Market Street Railway organization in San Francisco (http://www.streetcar.org" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;) has been looking for PCCs that could be made usable for the F line (which itself is due for a short extension in the next few years). I think it likely that they have looked at these and thrown up their hands. I know from their publication that it costs a bundle just to restore a PCC for heavy daily service when it's relatively well preserved to begin with.

They are multiple-unit air cars. Nothing which SF MUNI or MSR would be interested in.

If he went to all the effort to ship & store these, you wish he'd been able to prevent vandals from smashing all the windows. That being said, if some could be restored for $1.5M each, that would compare favorably to $5M+ for new vehicles. Assuming you have a proof-of-payment type system or fare gates, set them up so the doors are controlled from the front car, & only require one operator you could set up a good situation.

Could you cover the steps & convert PCC cars to high level boarding? Then you'd have modern ADA compliance.

Could you cover the steps & convert PCC cars to high level boarding? Then you'd have modern ADA compliance.

You'd have to do something about the outward folding doors and perhaps door widths, but I suppose anything's possible if money is no object.

Speaking of money, $1.5 milion each to rehab these cars seems to me to be WAY too low an estimate. These cars have been rotting in the woods for a couple of decades and likely were marginally operable, if at all, when they were sold for scrap. I expect some of them are just too far gone already. Brookville Equipment recently won a contract to rebuild 16 of MUNI's F-Line PCCs, all of which were last rebuilt between 1993 and 1995 and are in FAR better condition than the Windber collection. That contract is worth $34.5 million - $2.15 million per car.

These cars were out of service for 7 years when they were sold. 3232 was kept in service at Mattapan, and still was unsuitable for rebuilding around 2002.

On the other side, some of these were very reliable cars. The MBTA, in its infinite wisdom, chose to retain the last dozen cars from the previous rebuild instead of the dozen most reliable cars. These cars had been rehabbed when the program was suffering from overruns, thus major rebuilding was required again. 3087 still had a canvas roof in 2001, while 3093 had its replaced with steel in 1979. 6 or 7 should have been retained to support the Mattapan fleet, if only for parts.

BandA wrote: Could you cover the steps & convert PCC cars to high level boarding? Then you'd have modern ADA compliance.

I think the end taper would preclude using the front doors at high-level platforms; in San Francisco the Boeing cars couldn't use the end doors in the subway for that reason.

ExCon90 wrote:

BandA wrote: Could you cover the steps & convert PCC cars to high level boarding? Then you'd have modern ADA compliance.

I think the end taper would preclude using the front doors at high-level platforms; in San Francisco the Boeing cars couldn't use the end doors in the subway for that reason.

The Boeing LRVs were more tapered than the PCC due to length. Ends could be squared off with extra sheet metal or plastic panels. Fixing doors that are too narrow, then repairing all the rust, then fixing the mechanicals....

BandA wrote:

ExCon90 wrote:

BandA wrote: Could you cover the steps & convert PCC cars to high level boarding? Then you'd have modern ADA compliance.

I think the end taper would preclude using the front doors at high-level platforms; in San Francisco the Boeing cars couldn't use the end doors in the subway for that reason.

The Boeing LRVs were more tapered than the PCC due to length. Ends could be squared off with extra sheet metal or plastic panels. Fixing doors that are too narrow, then repairing all the rust, then fixing the mechanicals....

It's called a Tandy Subway Car. One was made from a Boston Car.