Derailment= East Palestine Ohio

Everyone - The aftermath of the February 3 East Palestine, Ohio derailment has become a serious problem
for Norfolk Southern - there are now daily news reports about the EP recovery process - examples from 2/16:
https://yahoo.com/news/rail-company-acc ... 48934.html
https://bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-64671893.amp

Misinformation from some sources has created controversy for EP area residents and those involved in the cleanup...

There has been comparison to the Lac Megantic, Quebec disaster on July 6, 2013 - This video from TSB Canada
explains what exactly happened and the unique circumstances of that tragic accident:
https://youtube.com/watch?v=wVMNspPc8Zc
Expect a similar response from the NTSB at some point as the EP derailment investigation continues...

The posted manifest showing derailed cars and their contents was a good contribution to this topic. Will there be a list of an accurate total of how many cars were involved? (If this is already available please direct me...) Of that determined total how many cars will be scrapped or written off either on site or another location?

This has become a very interesting topic of discussion - THANK YOU to all taking part...MACTRAXX
(additional editing reason: text change and news link addition)

Class One brake test was increased from being required after 4 hours off air to 24 hours, per FRA under railroad pressure. That means fewer visual inspections, but it was deemed to be acceptable since the automation would find any defects.

This means you could have a car that was developing issues on a connecting short line, that then sat on an interchange track with no ground air for 20 hours before a road train could pick it up. Road trains regularly do work along the line of road, picking up cuts of cars. And we don't always make head end pickups due to rules for DP placement. It's not just ride and glide on the road.

That cut of cars used to require a Class One brake test if off air for 4 hours. That involves walking every car in the cut doing a visual inspection. Of course, under PSR the trains are so big crews would outlaw doing this. I'm talking about 50 to 100 car line of road pickups. That would be a train in and of itself in the old days. Now it's just your pickup. Mechanical forces have been cut. So, you can't get car department to do it either. You will notice a bearing that bad visually no templestik requried.

Thats ok just change the rule to 24 hours. That was the solution.

The unions tried to tell everyone, but no one listened.

And another one. https://www.fox2detroit.com/news/train- ... police-say

Train derailment in Van Buren Twp, not a hazardous situation

A train derailed in Van Buren Twp on Thursday, prompting police to urge everyone to avoid the area. The good news, police say, is that nothing hazardous has been released from the train's containers.

VAN BUREN TOWNSHIP, Mich. (FOX 2) - Authorities are responding to a train derailment in Van Buren Township Thursday morning.

Authorities are asking residents to avoid the area of Huron River Drive and Haggerty due to a railroad accident investigation. Both north and southbound traffic is blocked due to the incident, which happened just south off I-94 and west of Belleville.

Roads will be closed for a few hours, the Van Buren Public Safety Department said.

It's unclear what happened, but police said there are no injuries and the area is not a hazmat situation. The department said there was "no evidence" of exposed hazardous materials and any train cars that contained hazardous materials had not been compromised.

If this keeps up we'll have to make a "Latest NS derailment" thread...

We are seeing the end result of the looting of US railroads begun in 2017 under PSR. It's similar to the looting of Sears or Toy's R Us, but with more devastating outcomes.

And to think they want one-man crews.

From the consist provided by the NTSB, sure looks like the cars involved originated with the train at the TRRA in Madison IL, not as a pickup, which would likely debunk your post apparently concluding that this catastrophic accident was a result of Class One brake test rules changes before we even hear from the NTSB.

Furthermore, somehow you miss the fact of healthy private capital investment continuing to be made by the railroad industry with the application of PSR and how it offers traffic growth potential for skeptical but necessary investors. Your 20-year employer is in its best physical condition yet, finally earning its cost of capital, a very important detail for a capital-intense business like railroads that goes to safety as well as other benefits.

Probably best to heed Mr. Vantuono's advice.

Passing along this interesting opinion piece from today's New York Times,

"Over 1,000 Trains Derail Every Year in America. Let’s Bring That Number Down."
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/02/17/opin ... =url-share

You correctly characterized the NYT piece as opinion - not a lot facts but a lot of hand wringing and simplistic suggestions. The graph of # of derailments of trains carrying hazardous materials actually shows an overall downward trend in the past 15 years despite the increase in # of ethanol and crude oil trains (because the Feds didn’t approve pipelines like Keystone). Where’s the chart that shows the accident rate of trends over times of trucks hauling hazardous materials? How about a breakdown of train accident causes: crew caused (a reason the PTC mandate was issued) v mechanical failures?
And as far as I know, ECP experiments did not show dramatic improvement in train safety despite its innovation and cost. And stop with the using profits to buy back stock baloney. Investors take the risk and deserve the rewards.

Stock buybacks = stock price manipulation.

There is no excuse - ever - for investors to be rewarded through naked manipulation.

The rail industry has reached a pivotal point where they are decimating the working man who is 'doing the job' for the rail industry in order to pay more dividends to people who don't work for a living. That is not going to end well for our society. No matter how much we try to repackage the welfare aspects under the guise of legitimate behavior of investing. We need to call out welfare AS welfare when we see it, and stop trying to launder that concept using other respectable-sounding terms.

There are several ways in which a (railroad) company can return wealth to its shareholders (owners) including dividends and stock price appreciation through buybacks (not "manipulation"). Given that much of railroad stocks are owned by institutional investors, many pension and retirement plan funds, the beneficiaries are indeed those working or who once worked for a living.

Therefore, to your point, the issue is more about how resources are apportioned between our aging and retiring population and those younger and working in our entitled, flatter, rapidly changing, and dangerous world. And, anything that only targets railroads will not be good for railroads and those with an economic or emotional stake.

This NY Times opinion piece clearly points to the constellation of what might be legitimate recommendations, misinformation, and a left-leaning agenda in play that will go to how this plays out.

It takes sorting out, for example, side-by-side graphs indicating "Since 1970 the overall number of train cars derailed each year fell... [indicating ~3K in 2022]..."While the number of cars carrying hazardous materials on trains that derailed grew [indicating ~3900 in 2022]. OK. Or, a graphic indicating what cars were involved and how that clearly does not jive with an accompanying photo. Hmm.

Then there's "the precise cause of the NS derailment is still under investigation" but the immediate call for re-classifying HHFT; need for ECP braking; LNG prohibition; Hotbox detector regulations; near-miss reporting requirements; 2-person crew regulation; requiring railroads to pay all cleanup costs; and, re-evaluation of railroad safety regulations without allowing the NTSB or those on-site, who can call for immediate action should some fact-based determination be quickly made, find the precise cause of the derailment and make recommendations.

As fire fighters extinguish a large fire at a hazmat recycling facility in Braintree MA and cleanup of a tractor trailer carrying acid that wrecked in AZ are underway, across the media coverage a byline from the 2/15 Washington Post: "Transportation officials and experts say there's no indication of a rise in such events, while federal data shows hazmat incidents on transit are fairly infrequent"

Probably best to heed Mr. Vantuono's advice.

QB 52.32 wrote: ↑Thu Feb 16, 2023 10:03 pm From the consist provided by the NTSB, sure looks like the cars involved originated with the train at the TRRA in Madison IL, not as a pickup, which would likely debunk your post apparently concluding that this catastrophic accident was a result of Class One brake test rules changes before we even hear from the NTSB.

Furthermore, somehow you miss the fact of healthy private capital investment continuing to be made by the railroad industry with the application of PSR and how it offers traffic growth potential for skeptical but necessary investors. Your 20-year employer is in its best physical condition yet, finally earning its cost of capital, a very important detail for a capital-intense business like railroads that goes to safety as well as other benefits.

Probably best to heed Mr. Vantuono's advice.

I wasn't trying to imply that my post is what happened in this case, so there is nothing to debunk. I was pointing out a major change in the rules enacted due to PSR that has reduced the number of visual inspections performed on trains. The NTSB is saying it looks like a bearing failure from video evidence. Bearings just don't suddenly fail, in fact almost all of the engines have a poster on the back wall showing the visual signs of a possible bad bearing. I've shopped engines during the calendar day inspection for this very reason.

My post is an example of what happens every day under PSR railroading.

As far as the numbers go you are using the figures they report, using their own metrics which were changed after PSR in 2017. Things such as yard dwell time and departures.

The same numbers they were using in late summer and fall of last year, while trains were just sitting out on the mainline for days.

You'll forgive me if I take those numbers with a grain of salt.

Everyone - USA Today fact checks misinformation about the East Palestine derailment aftermath:
https://yahoo.com/news/ohio-train-derai ... 02322.html

False news and conspiracy theories spread by way of social media only confounds problems...
This RR.Net discussion topic has stayed clear of any questionable sources that are not credible...

The EP situation is bad enough for NS as it is without this extra nonsense to deal with...MACTRAXX

I have seen a few claims the train did get an alarm at the Salem detector but was directed to continue. IIRC the dispatching office has access to the readouts from the detector and could check what it was reporting.

But nothing definite on this either.

If that is the case NS is really going to take it in the shorts here - and should.

With all this technology you'd think they could put their own cameras on those detectors and have the crew be able to see what they're showing.