Railroad Forums 

  • CSX Acquisition of Pan Am Railways

  • Guilford Rail System changed its name to Pan Am Railways in 2006. Discussion relating to the current operations of the Boston & Maine, the Maine Central, and the Springfield Terminal railroads (as well as the Delaware & Hudson while it was under Guilford control until 1988). Official site can be found here: PANAMRAILWAYS.COM.
Guilford Rail System changed its name to Pan Am Railways in 2006. Discussion relating to the current operations of the Boston & Maine, the Maine Central, and the Springfield Terminal railroads (as well as the Delaware & Hudson while it was under Guilford control until 1988). Official site can be found here: PANAMRAILWAYS.COM.

Moderator: MEC407

 #1586577  by roberttosh
 
There are more than enough opportunities on the PAR system to keep CSX busy. As has been mentioned multiple times, there's a ton of business that moves in and out of the Maritimes and Northern Maine via CP and CN, much of which is almost certain to fall into their lap with little to no effort required. Once the line to Keag is upgraded, I'm sure they will pursue CBR opportunities to Irving at SJ. PAR serves no LPG facilities North of Portland, so I would imagine that getting someone to put a shovel in the ground and build a terminal at a couple of locations along the former MEC will be on their "to do" list. There are also Energy opportunities at the tank farms in Portland (Bio, Ethanol, ULSD, Butane). With vessel prices going through the roof, there is bound to be interest in re-establishing rail served rock salt piles in Maine and/or NH. Down in MA I'm sure they will look to locate more MSW and C&D facilities. This doesn't even include new business with existing Maine mills that will surely come about with single line service and pricing combined with better equipment supply and rail infrastructure. I think import/export port business is not high on their list of things to pursue.
 #1586583  by Shortline614
 
Concerning Searsport, I don't think it will ever amount to much beyond what it is now.

CP has been marketing Searsport heavily ever since the acquisition. It even has its own page on CP's website. (https://eca.cpr.ca/searsport/.) Unfortunately, it seems all this marketing hype has not paid off. I cannot find it now, but I recall comments from Mr. Creel from a few months where he called Searsport "disappointing."

The thought process behind bringing one or two Class Is to Searsport is that it would spur investment in the port. Despite CP's intense marketing, this has not happened, and I don't see why it would change if CSX was brought to town. Many here have rightfully said that Searsport needs investment if it is to be more than a niche port; however, any attempts at past expansion have been blocked, and I don't see this trend changing in the future.

But let's say that Searsport miraculously gets the investment it needs. What happens then? If I recall correctly, only 4-axle locomotives are allowed on the Searsport branch. Not ideal if you want to run long potash and petroleum trains as many predicted CP wanted to do. I've seen recent videos of the Searsport branch under CP and trains usually average 30-35 cars that bounce and sway on the 25 mph track. The track arrangement at Searsport isn't very conducive to unit-train operation either. All of this would have to be fixed.

Not to mention with CPKC looking more and more like a reality, I think CP has bigger issues to tackle than developing this backwater (by comparison) port. The future CPKC is more likely to spend money on the Pacific port of Lorenzo Cardenas, although with the line into the port being blockaded for significant portions of the year, I think Searsport would actually be the better bet. :P But that's just my opinion.

As for Boston and Portland. Boston is another port that is never going to amount to much beyond what it is now. I don't know enough about Portland to make a proper judgment so I'll defer to others here.
 #1586588  by F74265A
 
What happened to the guys over at rails and ports? Up through August they had all kinds of news and or rumors about pan am/csx deal but since then they’ve had absolutely nothing about this deal or anything else
 #1586590  by GTIKING
 
They have no real intel. False reporting will shut you down quick. No one misses them. They're the equivalent to gossiping middle schoolers.
 #1586591  by CN9634
 
Shortline614 wrote: Fri Dec 10, 2021 6:13 pm Concerning Searsport, I don't think it will ever amount to much beyond what it is now.

CP has been marketing Searsport heavily ever since the acquisition. It even has its own page on CP's website. (https://eca.cpr.ca/searsport/.) Unfortunately, it seems all this marketing hype has not paid off. I cannot find it now, but I recall comments from Mr. Creel from a few months where he called Searsport "disappointing."

The thought process behind bringing one or two Class Is to Searsport is that it would spur investment in the port. Despite CP's intense marketing, this has not happened, and I don't see why it would change if CSX was brought to town. Many here have rightfully said that Searsport needs investment if it is to be more than a niche port; however, any attempts at past expansion have been blocked, and I don't see this trend changing in the future.

But let's say that Searsport miraculously gets the investment it needs. What happens then? If I recall correctly, only 4-axle locomotives are allowed on the Searsport branch. Not ideal if you want to run long potash and petroleum trains as many predicted CP wanted to do. I've seen recent videos of the Searsport branch under CP and trains usually average 30-35 cars that bounce and sway on the 25 mph track. The track arrangement at Searsport isn't very conducive to unit-train operation either. All of this would have to be fixed.

Not to mention with CPKC looking more and more like a reality, I think CP has bigger issues to tackle than developing this backwater (by comparison) port. The future CPKC is more likely to spend money on the Pacific port of Lorenzo Cardenas, although with the line into the port being blockaded for significant portions of the year, I think Searsport would actually be the better bet. :P But that's just my opinion.

As for Boston and Portland. Boston is another port that is never going to amount to much beyond what it is now. I don't know enough about Portland to make a proper judgment so I'll defer to others here.
Searsport is only disappointing due to the underinvestment from MaineDOT and MPA. Really lack of planning... the warehouse there is pathetic and no on-dock rail was an oversight. The planned 'rail conveyor' system has been talked about for about 20 years now but instead a similar non-rail system was built out of Eastport, which has basically been used a handful of times if ever. So yeah... it's kind of a hard sell to Canpotex, or G3, or any one trying to move trainloads of bulk commodities when the port needs millions in investment to get the infrastructure up to par. I could certainly see something developing there someday, they need a loop track and a ship-side rail conveyor which can be done for I'd guess an 8-digit number (thats a wide berth I realize). The windmill hub is looking at a quarter-billion dollars.... which is basically what Saint John and CP have so far committed/invested at the container port modernization (US to CAD parity). Read the full report here: https://www.maine.gov/mdot/ofbs/docs/Ma ... 7-2021.pdf

Anyways.... I think the Searsport discussion gets us far away from the CSX / Pan Am topic... since CSX won't have access to it anyway.

Something more on topic is the article below which got me thinking... if/when Intermodal comes to Rigby I think you'll see a nice Quality Carriers terminal sprout up as well, should give Safe Handling a bit of a squeeze and bolster the local manufacturing sector.

https://www.bulktransporter.com/fleet-m ... artnership
 #1586601  by GTIKING
 
Has anyone been paying attention to PARs Hy-Rail trucks. I haven't looked into it however I've been told the Systems logo has been removed from them as of late.
 #1586604  by newpylong
 
GTIKING wrote: Fri Dec 10, 2021 5:06 pm Mellon didn't have CSX " bail him out". Far from ST. The railroad was traded to 500 Water Street Jacksonville in Nov 2020 for a deal they couldn't refuse. Mellon is far from stupid. He's a very smart man.
No such transaction, monetary or other has occured yet.
 #1586617  by GTIKING
 
The sale/trade has already happened a year ago. 800 million in stocks and a pristine seat on the board is what Timmy demanded in exchange for Systems. He did it this way to avoid captial gains tax.
All CSX needs is for the Feds to rubber stamp the trade.
 #1586619  by NHN503
 
newpylong wrote: Fri Dec 10, 2021 8:33 am Niche ports can still make money, especially when close to or on your main line.
Exactly. And some here seem to be confusing "bulk" for "unit train." Places like Portsmouth could easily handle a bulk shipment of 10-20 cars at a wack, and not be a unit train.
 #1586621  by NHN503
 
GTIKING wrote: Fri Dec 10, 2021 8:35 pm Has anyone been paying attention to PARs Hy-Rail trucks. I haven't looked into it however I've been told the Systems logo has been removed from them as of late.
They are all "normal" around here.
 #1586622  by F74265A
 
NHN503 wrote: Fri Dec 10, 2021 11:10 pm
newpylong wrote: Fri Dec 10, 2021 8:33 am Niche ports can still make money, especially when close to or on your main line.
Exactly. And some here seem to be confusing "bulk" for "unit train." Places like Portsmouth could easily handle a bulk shipment of 10-20 cars at a wack, and not be a unit train.
Serious question — how do you quickly load a 900 foot bulker 10-20 carloads at a time? The bulkers I see in Baltimore and Norfolk require big unit trains of grain or coal; same for potash in Saint John. 10-20 cars would work better for unloaded cargo like salt
 #1586628  by johnpbarlow
 
From the STB press release of Friday 12/10/21:
The Surface Transportation Board today announced the details of the upcoming public hearing on the revised application for CSX Corporation and CSX Transportation, Inc., et al. (CSX) to acquire control of Pan Am Systems, Inc., and its shortline subsidiaries. The public hearing will be entirely virtual and begin at 9:30 a.m. ET on January 13, 2022. If necessary, the hearing will continue on January 14, 2022.

Persons wishing to speak at the hearing should file with the Board by December 20, 2021, a notice of intent to participate (identifying the entity, if any, the person represents, the proposed speaker, the amount of time requested, and summarizing the key points that the speaker intends to address). The hearing will be held online using video conferencing and the Board will issue a subsequent decision with instructions for participation and public observation.
Must see Zoom?

https://www.stb.gov/news-communications ... /pr-21-50/
 #1586633  by CPF363
 
GTIKING wrote: Fri Dec 10, 2021 10:13 pm The sale/trade has already happened a year ago. 800 million in stocks and a pristine seat on the board is what Timmy demanded in exchange for Systems. He did it this way to avoid captial gains tax.
All CSX needs is for the Feds to rubber stamp the trade.
How can CSX already own the railroad without STB approval? This has happened before; in 1956, the Frisco RR gained control and tried to merge with the Central of Georgia but the ICC said no so the Frisco sold all of their stock to the Southern Railway.
  • 1
  • 206
  • 207
  • 208
  • 209
  • 210
  • 302