CSX East Rochester, NY derailment - 1/16

Ha, she said they were "...interesting...". I got called that alot in High School! Hmmm, wait a minute, I still get called that by my wife....

Mike (not the famous railfan)

keeper1616 wrote:News 8 did a nice job on thier spot on the news. Mike and I explained rail fanning quite well, and I think they got it. Read and view the clip here: http://www.wroctv.com/content/fulltext/?cid=8661

hey! thats very cool!
and yeah, the news did a good job of portraying railfans for once!
(it helped that the railfans did a great job of portraying themeslves!)

im going to post the video over on rypn.net..the guys over there are always talking about what a bad job the media does with railfan and railroad reporting..they will enjoy this one!

Scot

Mike,

Nice interview. Well said, well done and not overstated.

Greg

Now the question is...how long is CSX going to be able to fake it? How long before authorities finally step in and start treating CSX as the MENACE TO PUBLIC SAFETY that it is?

I've been carping for years about the horrid condition of the track along the former Conrail Water Level Route. This rash of derailments in urban areas is starting to put proof to the claim.

"Something" needs to be done. I'm not in favor of government micromanagement...but what else can be done, when a common carrier is run by people who don't understand their own business and have no regard for the safety of the public?

They absolutely do understand their business. It's about the bottom line, and since they are making money, I'm sure there is little care about deferred maintenance.

When the people in charge right now leave triumphantly, taking their money with them, and everyone else is left to hold the line, you will see a dramatic drop in profits, and the heads will roll.

Dave Becker

They already did that once when the "Snow" ball job left! Nothing has changed. Nothing will change when the current people leave. Nothing is going to change when replacements show up. It all has to do with the stockholders, and upper management, wanting more money in there pockets, then worring about what needs to be done.

pablo wrote:They absolutely do understand their business. It's about the bottom line, and since they are making money, I'm sure there is little care about deferred maintenance.

When the people in charge right now leave triumphantly, taking their money with them, and everyone else is left to hold the line, you will see a dramatic drop in profits, and the heads will roll.

Dave Becker

There are several misunderstandings in this post. First, a corporation does NOT make money for the management. Management is hired to run it FOR THE SHAREHOLDERS.

The perverse arm of government has put a "cap" on the amount of Executive Salaries that can be written off as a "cost of doing business" - so management, in virtually all industries, are paid with "stock options" - the right to buy company stock at reduced prices, from the company.

Sales of this stock, purchased below market prices, makes up a big part of their compensation.

So...CSX (and other unscrupulous corporations) is cooking the books making it APPEAR the company is making money, when in fact it's running its physical plant into the ground.

In a steel mill that's nobody's business except the shareholders'. Such management frequently winds up in Federal prisons...no great loss.

On a railroad? In the process of ripping off the company, the public is put in very real jeopardy.

Which is why I think drastic intervention is needed, yesterday.

There are no misunderstandings in my post, though I did not do a good job expressing myself. You were far more eloquent in your explanation.

A corporation does not make money for the management literally. However, performance dictates compensation, and so, the better a company does, the more compensation management is likely to get. Management may be hired to run it for the shareholders, but the shareholders reward management (upper management, of course) when they get profits. This is a fact. We're looking at it from two different angles, but it's the same point.

The cap may be in place, bu it will be circumvented given enough time. Further, this cap is new...I was speaking from a historical angle. And regardless of the cap, it will still be far and above what the rank and file makes, thereby making it a useful comparison all the same.

Agreed that CSX is cooking the books, but with no one to stop them, why would they care? What will happen is that this management will float out with a handsome balloon, and leave those behind with a rather large job of getting things back together. However...in some ways, they are making money. How many shareholders understand the concept of physical plant anyway? So, yes, it's defferred maintenance, but it's all about what have you done for me lately these days. Lately, CSX stock is doing well.

The public is in real jeopardy. Let's see what happens.

Dave Becker

Have you guys heard of Sarbanes-Oxley? If funny business is going on with CSX's finances, those guys can go to jail. And they would, because lower-level employees could be found liable also and there's no incentive for a junior manager to cover for the big shots if he or she gets caught.

That said, the stock options have everything to do with it. Wall Street does not reward railroad companies for investing heavily in physical plant, so managements are trying to do just enough to get by. Add in the fact that CSX and the other Class 1 railroads have been hauling record amounts of traffic over these rails during the past few years and we see an increase in derailments. Lawsuits, government oversight and public embarassment will do wonders in convincing the folks in Jacksonville of the error of their ways.

JD

Excuse me, the topic of this thread is the derailment in East Rochester. If you want to discuss CSX financials, start a new thread please.

-otto-

To loosely tie things together, the derailment is yet another sign of poor management causing what is likely to become a major public safety issue.

Dave Becker

Does anyone know the real reason for the derailment? Why not wait until the official cause then put the blame on them.

Many moons ago when Amtrak still departed GCT and the Lake Shore was recently rehabbed with HEP Heritage equipment, I (plus family) was headed back to Roch. It was a typical snowy upstate night and the Lake Shore was running later and later making the Roch patrons more and more upset. Then the conductor came thru and announced that there had been a derailment in Roch fouling the main. He would keep us posted. Eventually we learned that we would detour. Turns out we ran on the West Shore and were let out on Chili Rd where Amtrak had a fleet of taxis waiting for us.

I was thrillled. Nothing like rare mileage to make a fan happy. The rest of the patrons were extremely pissed. Not only did I get to ride the shore, but my departure had been by air so my car was actually parked at the airport. A five minute taxi ride from where I was dropped instead of a long and expensive ride from downtown. (Cabbie wasn't too happy). Thanks Amtrak (& Conrail).

(Was there ever regular passenger service on the Shore around Rochester--my understanding is that even the Century went (& stopped) on the main thru Roch station?)

memories....

Steve

I don't believe a cause has been determined yet, though I'd be willing to bet money it's due to poor track condition (broken bar, perhaps, or even a broken rail...maybe a combination of things).

I have pictures up from the crash at my website (http://blog.cnelson.us)