CR on the Southern Secondary

[quote="Bracdude181]
If you need a door on a railcar closed, it’s a charge of $250.

Yes. $250 to close a railcar door.

[/quote]

From the CSXT 8100 publication changes from 1/1/2020

If CSXT is requested to do an inspection, or to make any mechanical adjustments (including, without limitation, tightening bolts, closing gates/doors/hatches, etc.), CSXT may apply a charge a minimum of $1,000.00 for each railcar inspected or adjusted.”

The rest of your quoted prices are at or less than industry standards.
If you do not understand the business side of Railroading and how railroads make money your opinions don't really matter to most people in the railroad industry. If you looked, each C&D road has their own set of tariffs. To sit here and say definitely " these are the rates" is doing every one a disservice, not to mention, potentially scaring customers with rates when you aren't agent of the Railroad.

I Couldn't find tariffs from Railroads such as RBMN, GWI, GVT.

Intra-track switching? And you think their charge is too high? They gotta get an engine and crew there and back to move the car from one to the other. $500 is cheap!

So we’ve gone over prices. How’s some of the other things? Let’s take a look a construction and quality standards that new and existing C&D customers must follow. Here’s some quotes from their standards handbook available on their website.

“Industry shall be responsible for all required site work as outlined in these Standards and as required for installation of both Industry and Railroad-owned track.”

So the industry pays for the switch as well then? The most expensive part of the siding? Wonderful. CSX at least pays for the switch when a side track for a new customer is underway.

“Tracks are to be designed to avoid coupling railcars in curves during switching operations.”

I can see why this is a standard, but what about pre-existing tracks? Would it need to be redesigned? What if this isn’t possible due to space constraints? Is the industry SOL?

“End of Track (ET) Devices shall be placed at the open end of all stub-ended tracks.
Earth mounds are the preferred ET Device. Earth mounds shall be of an approved design similar to CAD Plan “Bumping Post Earth Mound”, shall be sufficient to stop a moving railcar and should be protected against erosion.
Where earth mounds are impractical, bumping posts shall be used on all stub end tracks that end at a structure, dock, or road. Bumping posts shall be either new or secondhand, of good quality and of approved design similar to CAD Plan “Bumping Post Metal”.

The bumping post to be used must be approved by C&D? What does this mean for Woodhaven? They have two posts already. What if they aren’t the kind C&D prefers? Does Woodhaven have to pay out of pocket for new bumping posts or risk denial of service by C&D?

“Private vehicular grade crossings located on Industry-owned track beyond the Railroad’s maintenance point in the track shall meet or exceed Railroad standards and will only be permitted under the terms of the Side Track Agreement.
Crossing surface types for private grade crossings are at the discretion of the Industry but shall be built in accordance with Railroad standards as outlined in CAD Plan “Grade Crossings Asphalt”, CAD Plan “Grade Crossings Asphalt Rubber”, CAD Plan “Grade Crossings Precast Concrete” and CAD Plan “Grade Crossings Precast Concrete Panels”.

If your a railroad customer and have a road crossing on your track on your property, it must meet the railroad standard? Meeting the FRA and local standards isn’t enough?

I could go on here, but I don’t know. Maybe I’m just worrying too much, maybe C&D will make everything better down here, maybe this is all a scam, maybe this is the beginning of something else that none of us know about.

I just can’t say I’m excited for a C&D takeover from everything I’ve been finding out and would prefer if another railroad was doing all this. There will be some who are fans of (or otherwise affiliated with) C&D on here who want all this to happen, and that’s fine. I’m personally just not excited about what all this may mean for all current and potential customers in the long run with all these tariffs and standards that will apply to everyone if C&D does actually run this line once all is said and done.

@CR7876 That’s to completely inspect the car. Doesn’t say anything about closing doors.

Oddly nothing on C&D on railcar inspection. There’s one for damaged railcars put pretty much every common carrier freight railroad has a charge for a damaged car.

Bracdude181 wrote: ↑Sat Jul 03, 2021 5:10 pm @CR7876 That’s to completely inspect the car. Doesn’t say anything about closing doors.

Oddly nothing on C&D on railcar inspection. There’s one for damaged railcars put pretty much every common carrier freight railroad has a charge for a damaged car.

(including, without limitation, tightening bolts, closing gates/doors/hatches, etc.)
It does say closing doors.

I get that you have a distain for C&D here, and I'm personally losing work over this potential transaction, but your understanding of how the railroad works financially isn't accurate.

@CR7876 Hold on.... Your losing work over this???????????

Are you on SA31 or based out of Browns?????????????

Bracdude181 wrote: ↑Sat Jul 03, 2021 5:46 pm @CR7876 Hold on.... Your losing work over this???????????

Are you on SA31 or based out of Browns?????????????

No I am not on the SA31. I do know them personally.

But the Conductor and Engineer on SA31 are not the only people who " lose work". Every Engineer and Conductor will now potentially have one less assignment they can hold. Trackmen will now have 50ish miles of Railroad they do not have to maintain. Machinist will now probably have one less locomotive to service in Browns. Train Dispatchers will have one less branch line to control traffic on. Clerks will now have 8 less customers to talk to. These are the potential job losses for a transaction like this. Keep in mind there are real people on both ends of this. I fall somewhere in the above, I don't think anyone will get a lay off, but those are the risks.

Wow. All that so Conrail can save some money.

These two rail lines are doomed.

Edit: Have you ever worked on SA31?

Bracdude181 wrote: ↑Sat Jul 03, 2021 6:33 pm Wow. All that so Conrail can save some money.

These two rail lines are doomed.

Edit: Have you ever worked on SA31?

I've been in the industry for over 20 years, working in various crafts. That may have been a position I have worked before. What relevance that has on to my qualification to this conversation I do not understand.

This will probably get me suspended again, but Dear God Bracdood, if you WANT CHANGE on the railroad, hire on. Start as a conductor trainee, then conductor then engineer trainee, then move to engineer. Forward your career from there. Maybe graduate from college with a degree in engineering or business.

C&D will probably be the best thing to ever happen to this line, but it's years off.

RR tariffs are there for a reason, it's flipping expensive to run a railroad these days. $22.00/hour per man is the minimum wage (per person) for track gangs these days. I would guess your average track gang is probably 6-8 men, so 8x22= $176.00/hr. $176/hour x 8 hours is $1408.00 per day. This is for labor only. What about the tens of thousands of dollars of investment in brush cutters, tie cranes, tie inserters and tamping equipment? Perhaps an RJ Corman can come in to perform these duties with their own equipment. Wow, what would be their hourly rate be for these services? I know grants are in place, this is for general information only.

Conrail will lose dozens of positions when the transformation takes place, but many CR employees may be offered jobs as a result. Many others will not. This is progress, and no one can stand in the way of progress.

Just my .02 worth...

CR7876 & RailsEast: Thank you both.

I would think the Door Closing fee is meant as a nuisance fee, meaning that the railroad expects to quickly inspect the car to make sure it is ready to roll, hook up, and go. They don't want to waste time making sure the car is clear of anyone inside and then securing the door. Not a big deal, but a nuisance. I equate it to a trucking company not wanting anything to do with sealing any boxes/pallets up before it transports the load. Not their job.

The fee is to "encourage" the Customer to be ready for their pick up.

Demurrage or "Industry Delay" occurs, but it is more important that the railroad has to stick to their schedule or they miss their assigned slots on other roads, like NJT, which can push the job to a second day. It's one thing when loads are moving in and out of a plant daily, but when a load only moves in and out once a week, delays are significantly costly. They want the customer to be ready to go when it's their allotted time. Trucks are only hindered if they are moving permitted loads that have time restrictions, otherwise the worse thing to occur is rush hour traffic.

CJPat wrote:Trucks are only hindered if they are moving permitted loads that have time restrictions, otherwise the worse thing to occur is rush hour traffic.

Yeah, no. Trucks have schedules to meet and hours on duty rules to follow as well...

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Bracdude181 wrote: ↑Sat Jul 03, 2021 3:17 pm @Jersey Rail Filmmakers The Southern Secondary and Freehold Industrial Track are going to be connected by reopening the easternmost 5 miles between Farmingdale and Freehold. The work is being done with grant money awarded to Chesapeake and Delaware, who will most likely assume all operations of both lines following completion of the work.

Oh wow, I did not know this. I guess this can be a positive and negative, due to their high prices. What would the line look like in that case? Would Red Bank to Farmingdale still be active if there is no use for the NJCL?

Also, would C&D use the same CSX/NS locomotives that we have seen for the past 10 years? Or would they use their own fleet?

I feel very stupid right now, I'm so behind XD

@eolesen - My apologies, no offense intended.
It is well recognized that most occupations are indeed trying to adhere to a schedule and any delay has the potential to impact any connection trying to be made between trucks, trains, ships, planes or any other mode of transport. Although being late on any schedule is bad, missing movements on ships and trains are extremely expensive especially, because the availability of the next one may result in further delays measured in days, weeks, or possibly months.

And I am not saying trucks do not face the same problem if they need to do a handoff to those same ships and trains. There is just a higher availability/flexibility in truck and plane transport.