CoNO: All things City of New Orleans

This has proven to be an interesting topic, and is an example that a discussion forum "works".

At this time however, there appears to be no set procedure for the "IC" trains arriving and departing CUS; and appears to be the Train Dispatcher's 'call' determined only by other traffic over the affected lines.

I would have thought that in order to avoid wheelage for use of the Air Line (somewhere, "I heard" SCAL is treated as a Joint Facility), Amtrak kept 58-59, City, off it, but that the State, possibly through ignorance, let "Brave Men and the Dog', i.e. 390-393, use the Air Line and incur the wheelage. But that now appears unfounded.

Oh well, I'm sure there are enough Operating Employees that refer to the Dispatcher as 'God".

I appreciate your input gentlemen. It is really insightful! The answers are even more interesting than what I was expecting.

It sounds like these movements are pretty much a crapshoot. The last time I was on the Eastbound SWC, we backed into CUS but that was also do in part because the equipment was also being used for the Capitol Limited which was departing later that same evening (assuming this is still the same practice as it was 13 years ago, then there is probably not as much flexibility there unless the SWC is extremely late and we're only talking about terminating movements here as there is no other reason to back the SWC out upon departure unless the WB Capitol Ltd was late and a decision was made to ferry the equipment through on the SWC, locomotives and all).

I don't know if similar circumstances apply to the City of New Orleans or not as it relates to having the equipment continue on as another train and if that plays a role in determining how the train departs.

mlrr wrote:I appreciate your input gentlemen. It is really insightful! The answers are even more interesting than what I was expecting.

It sounds like these movements are pretty much a crapshoot. The last time I was on the Eastbound SWC, we backed into CUS but that was also do in part because the equipment was also being used for the Capitol Limited which was departing later that same evening (assuming this is still the same practice as it was 13 years ago, then there is probably not as much flexibility there unless the SWC is extremely late and we're only talking about terminating movements here as there is no other reason to back the SWC out upon departure unless the WB Capitol Ltd was late and a decision was made to ferry the equipment through on the SWC, locomotives and all).

I don't know if similar circumstances apply to the City of New Orleans or not as it relates to having the equipment continue on as another train and if that plays a role in determining how the train departs.

As I think Mr Larson mentioned, the City of New Orleans now runs through to the Texas Eagle, and that too can play into the routing... If the Eagle wyes in to CUS, then the City will depart with the engines facing south and will, out of necessity NEED to pull past the wye and shove out to Union Avenue on BN2 or BN3 crossing over to the Air Line and exit town via that route. the connectio at 21st street ( the afore mentioned new connection or Amtrak wye) is is the wrong quadrant to allow for a train to pull out of CUS and head for the IC.

Gilbert B Norman wrote:This has proven to be an interesting topic, I'm sure there are enough Operating Employees that refer to the Dispatcher as 'God".

He is the "Delayer"!

AMTK1007 wrote:If the Eagle wyes in to CUS, then the City will depart with the engines facing south and will, out of necessity NEED to pull past the wye and shove out to Union Avenue on BN2 or BN3 crossing over to the Air Line and exit town via that route. the connectio at 21st street ( the afore mentioned new connection or Amtrak wye) is is the wrong quadrant to allow for a train to pull out of CUS and head for the IC.

It seems counterproductive to wye the Eagle. Doesn't it normally have a straight shot into the station? Why wye the Eagle?

I agree that the SW quadrant to the AirLine is the only way out for the City if the train leaves CUS engine first. At least until the Grand Crossing connection is restored. Then engine out trains can simply keep going forward.

Backing out of CUS there are the three options, NW quadrant or SE quadrant at 21st Street or NW quadrant over the AirLine.

justalurker66 wrote:

AMTK1007 wrote:If the Eagle wyes in to CUS, then the City will depart with the engines facing south and will, out of necessity NEED to pull past the wye and shove out to Union Avenue on BN2 or BN3 crossing over to the Air Line and exit town via that route. the connectio at 21st street ( the afore mentioned new connection or Amtrak wye) is is the wrong quadrant to allow for a train to pull out of CUS and head for the IC.

It seems counterproductive to wye the Eagle. Doesn't it normally have a straight shot into the station? Why wye the Eagle?

I agree that the SW quadrant to the AirLine is the only way out for the City if the train leaves CUS engine first. At least until the Grand Crossing connection is restored. Then engine out trains can simply keep going forward.

Backing out of CUS there are the three options, NW quadrant or SE quadrant at 21st Street or NW quadrant over the AirLine.

if you are going to change power, but plan on working the train it's self in the depot ( turn in CUS) then you wye so you can access the locomotive that would otherwise be trapped against the post.. Also to keep the locomotive (exhaust and noise) away from the gates (doors) those are 2 reasons to wye the eagle inbound

From the "olden times" it appears missing from this dance is a fleet of RS1's & other critters that were used to bring the train sets down to the coach yard. The days of finding a set of F's in the ATSF yard near Archer/Cermak are long gone. There seems to be a similar shuttle to get cars from & to the IC Central station till it was closed.

Mr. Woodle, while I recognize and respect that your immediate posting is submitted only as a historical note, that Yard engines now largely work in the Yard and Road crews handle their trains from yard to depot and v.v, represents a hard-won victory for the carriers. I doubt if any road, Class I or Amtrak, would be about to abrogate that victory.

I can recall the days circa 1970 when I joined the industry that 'Road" meand "Road' and Yard meant "Yard". I can even recall observing, both in line of duty and as a fan, the absurdity of watching a Yard engine (not just a hostler) handling light Road power within Yard Limits.

But alas, "those were the days" of five man (and I mean all of male gender) crew consists (six on freights through "full crew law" states). No wonder the era in which I hired on was the industry's "Dark Ages". While of course, when I "look back on things' I do not regret my "third career" as a CPA in private practice, but I often wonder what it would have been like to be part of the industry's renaissance.

In place of the RS1's, Amtrak does have the P32BWH fleet which is commonly seen shunting cars at 14th street. Last night on 50(23) I observed three idle P32's at 14th. However, per GBN's statement, I believe either road crews or yard crews on road units bring the train into the station.

Road crews used to go down to the yard to get their trains, but that practice has been done away with for a number of years now. The majority of shuttling between the yard and downtown is handled by "pin-up" crews (as opposed to "switching" crews, who primarily do just that, and don't spend as much time downtown). Both varieties are based at 14th Street, and move around the terminal by foot, train, or jitney, as needed. On pin up moves, a yard engine is usually not needed, and only the road power is used. Said power may be already with the train, or it may have to be brought up from the diesel pit.

Naturally, the road power doesn't have the greatest visibility for the engineer vs. the switch engine (never mind that there is only one "real" switch engine left in CHI), so the pin-up conductors usually convey their shoving instructions over the radio.

Mr. Larson--

Is the use of "pin-ups' being done as a carrier prerogative or were the Agreements (T+E), Local or National as the case may be, modified.

I presume the consist of a pin-up is Cond (only) & Engineer; possibly with an hourly pay structure (no miles to absorb the terminal handling time) someone took a second look and decided that it was more economical to have the Cond+Asst+Engr mark up/off at the station.

Additional question: can pin-ups on your property handle motive power between Engine House and train, or does that work belong to Yard Crews and/or Hostlers?

Enquiring mind (and former Labor Relations Officer) wants to know.

Gilbert B Norman wrote:Mr. Larson--

Is the use of "pin-ups' being done as a carrier prerogative or were the Agreements (T+E), Local or National as the case may be, modified.

I presume the consist of a pin-up is Cond (only) & Engineer; possibly with an hourly pay structure (no miles to absorb the terminal handling time) someone took a second look and decided that it was more economical to have the Cond+Asst+Engr mark up/off at the station.

Additional question: can pin-ups on your property handle motive power between Engine House and train, or does that work belong to Yard Crews and/or Hostlers?

Enquiring mind (and former Labor Relations Officer) wants to know.

Pin up crews are typicaly, as you presumed, Conductor and Engineer only. ALL Amtrak crews wether road or yard are paid on an hourly not mileage basis. Pin Up crews can indeed handle power to and from the house as required as they are considered yard crews as well...

Wow, this is the kind of topic I like, in view of that my "CV" has three years of railroad Labor Relations within such.

One question leads to another; can carrier at its prerogative still direct a Road crew to handle their Train, station to yard and vv, i.e. what if an assigned pin-up Engineer had to lay off (presume excused for reasonable cause) and the Extra Board was "dry"? or would that result in (a "classic" i once heard from a GC 'along the way") " you'd better spot that Boxcar in order to hold the Penalty Claims you'll be looking at''.

Gilbert B Norman wrote:Wow, this is the kind of topic I like, in view of that my "CV" has three years of railroad Labor Relations within such.

One question leads to another; can carrier at its prerogative still direct a Road crew to handle their Train, station to yard and vv, i.e. what if an assigned pin-up Engineer had to lay off (presume excused for reasonable cause) and the Extra Board was "dry"? or would that result in (a "classic" i once heard from a GC 'along the way") " you'd better spot that Boxcar in order to hold the Penalty Claims you'll be looking at''.

Typicaly not.. the road jobs are posted as such, and the crew may not be qualified off the main tracks. Additionally, the yard jobs in Chicago proper are part of Labor Zone 4 ( as are the road jobs that go east) and you also have zone 7 & zone 8 crews working in chicago. Another factor is that not ALL road jobs originate in Chicago, as such Chicago is the away from home terminal and there is a need to get those crews to the hotle to get rest for the outbout assignment.

In addition there is nothing to prohibit a "Yard" Job form doing "Pin-UP" work as it is all technecly yard work.

Does anyone know anything about this? I was in Greenwood, Mississippi today waiting for City of New Orleans to show up, and an Amtrak official at the station said that Amtrak was trying to restore service to the Canton Sub (ex-Grenada Sub), so that they would not conflict with freight trains. When I told him the line between Grenada and Canton had been shut down, he mentioned they (assuming they means CN) are looking into rebuilding the line (assuming welded rail and CTC signaling). Does anyone know anything about this, and is this for real that Amtrak is really looking into putting the City of New Orleans back on the Canton Sub?

Thanks!