Commuter Rail Electrification

I think the answer is in the article there. The T feels no obligation to follow up on what the FMCB told them to do because its successor organization isn't pushing them to do anything right now.

Obviously, things like resolutions of the FMCB are not binding. I think they should have kept the FMCB permanently.

I think we've sussed out that they should electrify the BOS-PVD Line, can do it with minor work like beefing up substations and wiring station tracks. They should pool electric locomotives with Northeast Regional and have Amtrak service them. They need low priced access to Amtrak electricity so that the cost for electricity + locomotives is lower than the HSP46, otherwise what is the point of electrification?

Electrifying the Fairmont / Midland / Dorchester Branch is a nice-to-do.

Extend the Blue Line to Lynn and stop talking about the stupidity of electrifying the Newburyport line.

The signal system on Rockport may be ancient enough that there will need to be a complete replacement for electrification. Note it has taken quite some time for Caltrain to change its signal system for both PTC and electrification.

They need low priced access to Amtrak electricity so that the cost for electricity + locomotives is lower than the HSP46, otherwise what is the point of electrification?

That's the problem here, Amtrak is probably milk it right out of the MBTA to pay for the substations and for using their wires , and when I say milk it, I mean for every single penny its worth (similar to what they did with MARC)

Electrifying the Fairmont / Midland / Dorchester Branch is a nice-to-do.

The way it is now, yes, but I think the Fairmount Line should just be replaced by rerouted Franklin (or Foxborough) trains, it is the lowest ridership line in the entire system and is a supposed commuter rail line that never even goes beyond the borders of Boston. If the Franklin Line were to be rerouted over the Dorchester Branch (replacing all Boston - Readville trains in the process) it would not only make it so that it makes more sense to keep the Dorchester Branch unelectrified, which would save money, but it would also free up space on the Southwest Corridor, which would come in handy for South Coast Rail service.

Extend the Blue Line to Lynn and stop talking about the stupidity of electrifying the Newburyport line.

Amen! Either that or build an infill station in East Revere on the Eastern Route and have a shuttle running between that and either Revere Beach or Wonderland.

BandA wrote: ↑Sat Apr 02, 2022 2:55 pmExtend the Blue Line to Lynn and stop talking about the stupidity of electrifying the Newburyport line.

For the love of God, YES!

The Dorchester Branch (official designation of the Fairmount) was also a secondary route for Amtrak trains in and out of Boston prior to and during electrification of the NEC. It should be electrified to restore that versatility, on top of allowing short EMU trains for the low ridership route (which would probably increase with more frequent lower capacity trains). You could still run diesel/dual mode trains from Foxboro that way plus select Franklin trains which has already been done. I wouldn't send all service off the Franklin that way because a lot of its ridership goes to Ruggles and Back bay.

The Dorchester Branch (official designation of the Fairmount) was also a secondary route for Amtrak trains in and out of Boston prior to and during electrification of the NEC. It should be electrified to restore that versatility

Hmm, you raise a very good point here, so good in fact that you have managed to change my mind and convince me that the Dorchester Branch should be electrified, Amtrak could really use that versatility again.

Also, here is an article in which Senator Brendan Crighton whines that the MBTA (rightfully) has no plans to electrify the Newburyport/Rockport Line: https://www.itemlive.com/2022/03/27/cri ... ppointing/

LYNN — When Senator Brendan Crighton, (D-Lynn) found out that electrification of the Newburyport/Rockport Line of the Commuter Rail was not included in the Massachusetts Bay Transportation Authority’s five-year capital investment plan, he said he was disappointed and frustrated at the decision.

“It’s a no-brainer. I don’t know anyone who would be opposed to this,” Crighton said. “We have a very strong case to make for the electrification of not just this line, but the entire commuter-rail system.”

Crighton serves as the Senate chairman of the Joint Committee on Transportation, serving alongside state Rep. William Straus, who is the House chair of the committee.

He was appointed as chair by Senate President Karen Spilka (D-Ashland) in February.

As chairman, Crighton said he has been holding conversations with Massachusetts Bay Transportation Authority (MBTA) General Manager Steve Poftak to make his case for investing in electrifying the Commuter Rail in Lynn and across the state.

Oh oh, the Senate Chairman of the Joint Committee on Transportation isn't getting his pet project. He might have some pull...but does the joint committee have two chairmen? How does that work?

The MBTA’s five-year capital investment plan (CIP) aims to spend $9.4 billion through fiscal year 2027 on 552 projects.

Isn't that less than the cost of just the GLX? Electrification of the Newburyport/Rockport line would cost $815M, which is about 10% of the entire capital budget for the next five years, so it must be more important than 55 other capital projects that were funded!! The Dorchester Branch / Midland / Fairmont Line has or potentially has a lot more trains & passengers than the Newburyport/Rockport Line, and I think it is shorter. Short & busy are important criteria for electrification.

I think the plan with Newburyport/Rockport would be to electrify as far as Lynn or Salem and run a frequent, electrified service (essentially providing rapid transit for Everett and Chelsea) while keeping current diesel frequencies to the ends of the line. Which, in a perfect world, is not such a terrible idea, but in the realm of electrifying the Commuter Rail there's certainly lower-hanging fruit to pursue first.

west point wrote: ↑Sat Apr 02, 2022 7:48 pm The signal system on Rockport may be ancient enough that there will need to be a complete replacement for electrification. Note it has taken quite some time for Caltrain to change its signal system for both PTC and electrification.

The Rockport Line, just like every other line, is having it's signal system upgraded as part of PTC. As noted though, the talk of electrification is only on the segment shared by Newburyport and Rockport trains.

mbrproductions wrote:...but I think the Fairmount Line should just be replaced by rerouted Franklin (or Foxborough) trains, it is the lowest ridership line in the entire system and is a supposed commuter rail line that never even goes beyond the borders of Boston. If the Franklin Line were to be rerouted over the Dorchester Branch (replacing all Boston - Readville trains in the process) it would not only make it so that it makes more sense to keep the Dorchester Branch unelectrified, which would save money, but it would also free up space on the Southwest Corridor, which would come in handy for South Coast Rail service.

As CRail noted there is a surprisingly high percentage of riders who use Ruggles and Back Bay. Probably in the vicinity of 40% if the total Boston-bound passengers. It's also faster to make 2 stops on the way into Boston instead of 7 on the Dorchester, looks like 22 minutes compared to 30. The Foxboro pilot wanted to have more trains routed over the corridor for that very reason, but they were short on slots to do it. As for South Coast service, the existing Stoughton slots would be the starting point. The better, but far more expensive, idea would be to turn the Needham Branch into the Orange Line, and free up all those slots. They carry all the way down to Readville even though the train peels off at Forest Hills.

mbrproductions wrote: ↑Sat Apr 02, 2022 10:15 pm That's the problem here, Amtrak is probably milk it right out of the MBTA to pay for the substations and for using their wires , and when I say milk it, I mean for every single penny its worth (similar to what they did with MARC

Except in this case the ROW is owned by the Commonwealth.

Except in this case the ROW is owned by the Commonwealth.

The ROW yes, but the catenary itself is Amtrak property

How much is Amtrak paying in rent for their catenary? And for railroad host fees...

The whole complex interaction is handled in the Attleboro agreement. But the power itself and the maintenance of the catenary system is all Amtrak. Any use of it by the MBTA will shift additional cost onto the MBTA they are not currently paying.

TurningOfTheWheel wrote: ↑Sun Apr 03, 2022 2:51 pm I think the plan with Newburyport/Rockport would be to electrify as far as Lynn or Salem and run a frequent, electrified service (essentially providing rapid transit for Everett and Chelsea) while keeping current diesel frequencies to the ends of the line. Which, in a perfect world, is not such a terrible idea, but in the realm of electrifying the Commuter Rail there's certainly lower-hanging fruit to pursue first.

Wouldn't it make more sense to extend the Blue line to Lynn?

The row of that narrow gauge interurban is still mainly intact to lynn. A viaduct will be needed to raise it over the MA1 interchange, and the sagus river. And it would be best to have it follow the eastern route mainline to lynne, where the station will need to be rebuilt to server both heavy and commuter rail.
It would need to be on fill most of the way, to futureproof against flooding.,