Car Floats

After seeing the hundreds of car floats of New York in trains magazine, i was wondering what is the history of New England's car floats? Did Boston have a carfloat or anywere else in New England?

Maine Central used to have one in Bath, Maine thet went between there and Woolwich, Maine, just across the river. There were others in the state, I forget the locations.
Mike

In Connecticut, before bridges were built in the late 19th century, train ferries were used to cross the Connecticut River at Old Saybrook and the Thames River at New London. In Boston harbor, the New Haven RR used barges called lighters to float freight cars alongside ships, where freight was transloaded. That lasted into the 1950s.

Triker wrote:After seeing the hundreds of car floats of New York in trains magazine, i was wondering what is the history of New England's car floats? Did Boston have a carfloat or anywere else in New England?

Float from where to where? We had them in New York because railroads had to float their freight across the harbor to reach their connections. If you notice the map in the last issue of Trains magazine, all the railroads from New Jersey were floating to terminals on Manhattan or in the Bronx, Queens, or Brooklyn, where they might either continue on another rail connection or terminate at a dockside warehouse. Why would you need to float freight cars in Boston when all connections were rail-to-rail?

Otto Vondrak wrote:

Triker wrote:After seeing the hundreds of car floats of New York in trains magazine, i was wondering what is the history of New England's car floats? Did Boston have a carfloat or anywere else in New England?

Float from where to where? We had them in New York because railroads had to float their freight across the harbor to reach their connections. If you notice the map in the last issue of Trains magazine, all the railroads from New Jersey were floating to terminals on Manhattan or in the Bronx, Queens, or Brooklyn, where they might either continue on another rail connection or terminate at a dockside warehouse. Why would you need to float freight cars in Boston when all connections were rail-to-rail?

Come on Otto, we here in bean town get our banana's from a BOSTON car float! <<<<<(at least we used too)
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TomNelligan wrote:In Connecticut, before bridges were built in the late 19th century, train ferries were used to cross the Connecticut River at Old Saybrook and the Thames River at New London. In Boston harbor, the New Haven RR used barges called lighters to float freight cars alongside ships, where freight was transloaded. That lasted into the 1950s.

I guess when I think of car floats, I'm thinking of something that goes shore-to-shore or port-to-port. Didn't realize that freight cars were "floated out to sea" in Boston Harbor.

An interesting "Railroad" operation was New Haven's "New England Steamship" operation. Prior to the arrival of the first end loader around 1948 (The Islander/Hackensack) which could carry trucks to the islands, freight would be unloaded from boxcars etc. at Woods Hole or New Bedford and loaded onto dollies which resembled miniature boxcars or flatcars. These were coupled into "trains" and hauled aboard the steamers by electric "donkeys". I guess you could call that a LCL float. I was a frequent visitor to Woods Hole in the sixties and would watch these "trains" being loaded onto SS Nobska, the last of the side loaders.

The Housatonic (Danbury & Norwalk) Railroad and the LIRR ran a railcar ferry operation between Wilson Point, CT (south of South Norwalk) and Oyster Bay, NY in the 1880's... but that's a ferry and not a barge. When I think of "car float" I think of...

Otto Vondrak wrote:I guess when I think of car floats, I'm thinking of something that goes shore-to-shore or port-to-port.

Speaking of which, and at risk of venturing off topic geographically, how many rail carfloat or ferry operations are left in North America these days? I'm aware of New York harbor, the boat from the southern tip of Delmarva to Norfolk (I think that's still running), the boat from Matapedia (I think) to the north shore of the St. Lawrence River in Quebec, Vancouver Island, and the railcar barge service to Alaska. Any others?

TomNelligan wrote:

Otto Vondrak wrote:I guess when I think of car floats, I'm thinking of something that goes shore-to-shore or port-to-port.

Speaking of which, and at risk of venturing off topic geographically, how many rail carfloat or ferry operations are left in North America these days? I'm aware of New York harbor, the boat from the southern tip of Delmarva to Norfolk (I think that's still running), the boat from Matapedia (I think) to the north shore of the St. Lawrence River in Quebec, Vancouver Island, and the railcar barge service to Alaska. Any others?

I wasn't sure if the Norfolk operation was still extant. I know recently one of NS's Norfolk carferrys (not a float) was cut up in Buffalo, NY. I think the old Grand Trunk and C&O/Chessie carferries across the Great Lakes are long gone (though the boats still carry people and automobiles). Wasn't aware of the Matapedia operation, either.

Otto Vondrak wrote:................................Wasn't aware of the Matapedia operation, either.

Actually Matane to Baie-Comeau, Quebec. (40 miles across the St. Lawrence) It's now a CN operation. Part of the recent Quebec Railway Corporation acquisition.

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Speaking of which, and at risk of venturing off topic geographically, how many rail carfloat or ferry operations are left in North America these days? I'm aware of New York harbor, the boat from the southern tip of Delmarva to Norfolk (I think that's still running), the boat from Matapedia (I think) to the north shore of the St. Lawrence River in Quebec, Vancouver Island, and the railcar barge service to Alaska. Any others?

Tom, I think you've got them all. The largest, of course, is the Alaska Hydro Train operation, an arm of Crowley Maritime. They claim to have the capacity to deliver 100 cars a week to their Whittier terminal and interchange with the Alaska Railroad. They have two large rail barges which are pulled by a variety of Crowley tugs.

The Alcoa Smelter and the Abitibi Consolidated Paper Mill at Baie Comeau, PQ, have no rail connection to the outside world, hence the operation of the rail ferry Georges-Alexander Lebel which makes an 80 mile round trip across the St. Lawrence each night. I've never been there, but its my understanding that this is a difficult operation to observe, due to its geographical remoteness and normal night time operations.

The other Canadian operation is owned by Seaspan Coastal Intermodal, an arm of the Washington Group, which also owns the Montana Rail Link, among others. This company has two ferries which are still listed as railcar capable, "Carrier Princess" and "Princess Superior". The Princess Superior is the former Incan Superior which was used to transport railcars from Thunder Bay, ON to Superior, Wisc. I'm not sure how active these vessels are in moving railcars to Nanaimo on Vancouver Island. As far as I know, Vancouver Island rail traffic has been pretty marginal for years and I would guess that most traffic comes out by truck on one of Seaspan's other ferries. These vessels and the service itself are former Canadian Pacific operations.

The other two operations, one in New York Harbor, the other across Hampton Roads, are both on life support, with great hopes for future traffic increases. Both operations use the services of contract tug and tow operators to pull railway owned barges. The Bay Coast Railway owns two rail barges and has lasted as long as it has due to railway clearance problems in the Northeast U.S. Most traffic consists of hi-wide cars. The former New York Cross Harbor is a well known operation between Greenville (Jersey City) and Brooklyn. Despite rosy projections and cash grants from the City of New York, this operation is always on the edge.

riffian wrote:The other two operations, one in New York Harbor, the other across Hampton Roads, are both on life support, with great hopes for future traffic increases.

NYCH is about to be purchased by the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey, so that operation appears to be a bit more secure. See also: http://railroad.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=128&t=56705

I'm going to move this to Railroad Operations, since we're going a bit beyond New England (not that I mind).

-otto-

There was a major float operation on the British Columbia lakes just north of the US . I think Kettle Valley was involved. Kootenay Lake perhaps?

Also - the Great Lakes - especially Michigan had ferries. There was also a ferry across the Detroit River with the Wabash RR.

A hopper[ore] car ferry existed between Ashtabula and Port Burwell Ontario - jointly owned by the CN and PRR which lasted into the late 1950's-early 1960's. Approximately 30 loaded hoppers were ferried every 8 hours in season.

Various Mississippi River ferries existed in the early 1900's.

Don't forget the San Francisco Bay ferries.

I think that there were car ferries to Central & South America as well.

And, the Prince Edward Island ferry, which has been pretty well documented.

How's that for a start.

Maybe we are going a wee bit off topic? But it is interesting, nu?

Merry news-ear y'all,

Omar/Canna

CannaScrews wrote:.......And, the Prince Edward Island ferry, which has been pretty well documented.

Here's CN's PEI Ferry "John Hamilton Gray" in service on the Newfoundland run arriving in Port aux Basque.

Also the standard gauge yard at Port aux Basque in 1984. Still there today but paved over.......It's all trucks now!