BSOR - Buffalo Southern Discussion

The NYLE has repaired several of it's largest trouble spots near the Dayton Arch. It won't be long before they are able to run up out of Gowanda. The BSOR has reactivated the section as far south as North Collins and it's propane customer. The worst section near Gowanda is being put out to bid for repair as I type this.

There are compelling reasons to restore the connection at Waterboro to get the NYLE to connect to the WNYP.

The WNYP would hypothetically get a connection to CSX, which would likely be the only one they would ever see. Also, they would get the chance to exchange quite a few cars there that might otherwise go north through Buffalo to get ot the NYLE and the BSOR. I suspect a few days' savings in time, too.

The NYLE would also get the benefit of connecting to the WNYP in such a way that would get them cars quicker and cheaper, too.

There are two major roadblocks to this happening:
1. A massive washout that was very, very bad 8 years ago. It has no doubt gotten worse, and will require a lot of money to fix. It's just south of Conewango Valley.
2. An odd physical layout at Waterboro, where the line used to merely be the old B&SW heading West. There was an interchange track there, but it will take some playing around for a physical interchange to take place, especially if it becomes more than a couple of cars at a time. I do not think there is a run-around off of the WNYP main...but I could be wrong. The switch was removed years ago.

Dave Becker

Dave writes

The WNYP would hypothetically get a connection to CSX, which would likely be the only one they would ever see.

The NYLE has a connection to CSX now at Buffalo via the BSOR. There are connections at Buffalo with all major carriers that enter Buffalo, either directly or indirectly. These include CSX, NS, CP, CN and BP. Though I agree a connection at both ends to the railroad makes the line more attractive. A dead ended rail line it very limited in it's growth potential. I'd sure hate to see the south end removed. Though it is true that it will require a large amount of money to restore the connection.

If they did restore to Waterboro, might as well get trackage rights to Jamestown or Falconer and interchange in the yard. Besides, I think I read somewhere that the line between Waterboro and Jamestown was originally Buffalo & SouthWestern anyways.

brianpwestgate wrote:If they did restore to Waterboro, might as well get trackage rights to Jamestown or Falconer and interchange in the yard. Besides, I think I read somewhere that the line between Waterboro and Jamestown was originally Buffalo & SouthWestern anyways.

And before that it was the BUFFALO and JAMESTOWN RR and I think it was built to a gauge of 6 feet 0 inches.

How involved are the counties in the ownership of these lines? That could be a hurdle to overcome if this line was to re-open as a through route.

I think it will be impossible for the line to ever become a through route, for three reasons:

1. The massive rehab the line would take, specifically with the one washout I've walked around.

2. The very odd current set-up at Waterboro where the interchange would be.

3. Most importantly, the significant grades in and out of Gowanda.

Dave Becker

I grew up in Eden which is on the old Erie RR B&SW Division. Both the Erie and the EL used the B&SW as an eastward main line for trains running from Meadville to Buffalo. The problem operationally was, and still is, Dayton Hill. Westbound trains running from Buffalo to Meadville ran down the main line to River Junction, then west over the River Line to Cuba Junction and then west to Meadville. The only westbound freight trains, usually, were the locals. Anything longer than the local, westbound, had to double or even triple Dayton Hill. There was a small yard at the top of the hill at Dayton which was used by trains that were doubling the hill. The River Line is long gone. Even the biggest six-axle engines couldn't haul heavy trains west up Dayton Hill. So the old B&SW has NO future as a through route, in my humble opinion.

The 1st train over the wash outs on the BSOR occured yesterday. All of the major spots have been repaired and service is now open the full length of the BSOR.

^Great news! Thanks.

The July 2010 issue of Railpace reports that RS-3 #28 stored in Eden is being moved to the Erie County Fairgrounds in Hamburg for display.

thebigham wrote:The July 2010 issue of Railpace reports that RS-3 #28 stored in Eden is being moved to the Erie County Fairgrounds in Hamburg for display.

excellent!
has she been donated to the WNYRHS?
any word on a possible repaint?

BSOR 28 is Alco c/n 80531, built August 1953.

Built new as D&H 4129 - August 1953
to United Railway Supply Co 4129 - April 1972.
to Roberval & Saguenay 28 - July 1973
to Adirondack Ry 28 - 1979
to BSOR 28 - March 1982

source: http://donsdepot.donrossgroup.net/dr1688.htm

surprisingly, I cant find any photos of D&H 4129 on line!
I would like to know if she only wore the original D&H black scheme,
or if she was also later repainted into the D&H lightning stripe scheme..

sister units in the original D&H scheme:
http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.p ... 845&nseq=1

sister unit in the Lightning Stripe scheme:
http://www.bridge-line.org/blhs/images/ ... hl4082.jpg

either scheme would look great!

Scot

This has been an interesting discussion regarding the BSOR and NYLE as a through route. Regarding the washout that Dave spoke of south of Conewango Valley, is it worse than the washout that WNYP had to repair at Alfred Station? I seem to recall people saying that washout could never be repaired and it was. Also, what type of mileage is it from active end of track on NYLE to Waterboro?

Jim

century430 wrote:This has been an interesting discussion regarding the BSOR and NYLE as a through route. Regarding the washout that Dave spoke of south of Conewango Valley, is it worse than the washout that WNYP had to repair at Alfred Station? I seem to recall people saying that washout could never be repaired and it was. Also, what type of mileage is it from active end of track on NYLE to Waterboro?

Jim

The section of tracks OOS is about 10-15 miles long.

The washout is relatively minor in comparison to the real challenge facing the NYLE: Dayton Hill. As others have posted, it has a steep grade that severely limits train traffic. There are photos of EL using SD45s for local traffic, including the climb up the hill. Sure I'd like to see the south end of the NYLE reopened, but NYLE's low freight traffic levels don't really justify it. And if the connection to the former Erie/EL main was restored, what woukld NYLE gain? Not much... since it would still need an intermediary RR (read: WNYP*) to interchange with NS. IMO, NYLE is better off maintaining its relationship with BSOR, which has access to at least 3 Class 1 RRs.

*- this is not intended as a derogatory comment on on WNYP, which is a fine shortline.

excellent!
has she been donated to the WNYRHS?
any word on a possible repaint?

Hi Guys! BSOR #28 will be owned by "The Fairgrounds" The WNYRHS has nothing to do with its being moved. However, a new longer display track was installed in June by the Fairgrounds people and our N&W Caboose and EL Boxcar were moved over to it. The OLI Boxcar is still in the lineup and the #28 will be placed at the "head-end." I've heard it will be painted in "Fairgrounds" colors what ever that might be.

I doubt the locomotive will be in place before the start of the Fair on Aug 11th. This is happening to replace the Arcade and Attica 0-4-0 that went back to Arcade in 2008.



Erie County Fair
http://www.ecfair.org/