Amtrak vs Flying

CHANGEATJAMAICA wrote:As mentioned in another area I'm traveling BOS/WAS/ORL/SRA and return at the end of March. The same trip I took last year at the same time. I'm not a rail nut, nor am I afraid of flying. (I spent over 30 years in the airline industry covering over 60K miles a year in the last three years of tenure). I have a life time space available term pass on one of our largest and oldest carriers. If I wanted to fly down to SRA and return paying full first class fares I'd save about $300 from what my Amtrak trip is costing. If I wanted the trouble and agrivation of non-reving I'd save well over a thousand. The simple reason I take Amtrak is: I prefer it.
Best regards,
Rodger

he also takes amtrak so he doesn't have to change @ jamaica for the airtran.

As someone who is uhhh horizontally challenged, I say Amtrak's the best, specially the rest rooms. However, I probably woudn't take the train for a really long trip (overnight) unless I wanted to do it for the sake of it (which I do!). I take the Regional every now and then to NYC, and the Downeaster is great (hope they get funding .

Well, you can certainly tell from reading the posts here who's a frequent flyer and who is not. "Buddah", when did you last fly? I haven't seen a 727 in passenger service in more than a decade (a few still fly for the package express firms). And, unless you're taking an international flight, you certainly don't need to be at the airport, clear of security and checked in, two hours before a flight. I generally give it an hour or maybe a bit more at peak times. So your time comparisons for a Chicago -- Toronto trip are bogus. Anyway, why don't you fly from Midway? It's a LOT closer to the Loop.

Post 9/11 security has added some time, but except in the Northeast Corridor, it's almost always faster to fly than take a train. Even in the NEC, when you add on the time to get to and from the station, the train is roughly time-competitive with driving. Example: NY to WAS, a trip I do about twice a month. My wife drives me to 30th Street in the morning on her way to work. Generally we leave the house at 6 AM for an 0655 train. Train takes about 1:35, arriving New Carrolton at 0830 (unless we get stuck behind a late MARC train, as happens about every other trip). I can generally be in the office by 9 AM. Elapsed time door to door: three hours. If I drive, I usually use Delaware Route 1 and US 301, then US 50 from Annapolis into DC. Elapsed time: reliably three hours, a bit less if I get lucky with traffic and lights.

Return trip is similar. I leave work at 1600 for a 1705 train that arrives PHL at 1855 (and, about one trip in two, is five minutes or more late). I'm generally home by about 1930. Elapsed time: three and a half hours. Driving is quicker.

And driving is cheaper, too. And on that subject...one reason I took trains so infrequently during all those years of consulting was that, generally, air travel was cheaper than overnight trains (with sleeping accommodations). Example: PHL to Jacksonville, FL, a trip I used to make several times a year. Typically air fare, plus one night in a hotel, plus transportation to and from the airport in Jax, was at least a couple of hundred dollars less than Amtrak wanted for round-trip roomette accommodations -- and in Jax, the train station is farther from downtown than the airport. And of course, if I took the train I'd be away from home for two nights, versus only one if I flew. And frankly, the Omni Jacksonville is quite a bit more comfortable than an Amtrak roomette.

So, outside the NEC (and a few spots on the West Coast) Amtrak is really out of the question for business travel.

I wish there were better options here.

I live in southern NH. I can "day trip" to NYC with my girlfriend for 1 tank of gas ($35-$70 at $2-$4/gal) and pay a $16 "Weekend Special" parking rate for all day in midtown Manhattan.

I can take a round-trip flight from Manchester to Philadelphia for $90 each (used to be as low as $58 ea).

Acelas are advertising weekend BOS-NYP rates of $99 from time to time. ...and it's an hour's drive from my house to Boston. It stinks that I can park in Manhattan on a weekend cheaper than Boston...

I would LOVE to be able to take a fast, inexpensive train for weekend getaways. Even if I had to make a connection in Boston (as, again, they're talking about bringing the trains back to Nashua, Manchester and Concord - only this time they're actually making progress) I'd do it but it's still cost-prohibitive (by comparison).

Now - a $99 Acela fare from Boston to D.C. would be more competitive - but now you're competing against a $79 MHT-BWI fare. ...but at least you're in the ballparlk.

I hope this dosen't violate the fare quoting policy but [fare quote removed] for the acela bos-nyp is pretty much a run of the mill fair (I think it might be the 2nd to lowest bucket) a regional for bos-nyp can be scored for a much lower price (and the extra 40 minutes doesn't bother me)

Mod note - fare quote removed, the owners of the site frown upon fare quotes. Thanks for the contribution otherwise.

There's the rub. That's another hour and a half (round trip). From my house in Southern NH, I can hit the city limits of NYC in just over 3 hours. Contrast that with the hour to Boston plus travel time on the train.

One time, for a weekender, we decided to drive to Stamford and take MNRR to and from Manhattan but there aren't many convenient hotels - the one closest to Stamford Station is a LONG walk and the shuttle van doesn't run all night. Never mind the shock of a $40 breakfast for two (my mistake thinking it was a complimentary breakfast as part of our room package).

And yeah, I figured that simply quoting the Amtrak ad, without getting into specifics about which train or what class *should* be ok.

Surely NellieBly is pushing us toward the accurate way of looking at this based on the studies done in the past. When does the perceived time seem less versus flying. Outside of the corridor(s) the answer is rarely unless you happen to be in a sweet spot on the schedule requiring no transfers and directly serving your origin and destination during after work hours.

But for that 1:35 that is spent on the train I imagine that a bit of consulting documentation work is done that cannot be done with one hand on the wheel. Of course the transfers take a bit out of the perceived time savings. But would the actual perceived time not be closer to 1:45 versus 3:00.

I have always wondered why Amtrak does not provide a "Desk Car" class in which a guaranteed wide chair with a desk and connections would be available on certain trains. See my 60 Seat coach post from a while ago for the three across seating with two one way aisles in between the seats. Each passenger would have their own elbow room and desk space except during station stops and the occasional person walking down the aisle.

VPayne wrote:Surely NellieBly is pushing us toward the accurate way of looking at this based on the studies done in the past. When does the perceived time seem less versus flying. Outside of the corridor(s) the answer is rarely unless you happen to be in a sweet spot on the schedule requiring no transfers and directly serving your origin and destination during after work hours.

But for that 1:35 that is spent on the train I imagine that a bit of consulting documentation work is done that cannot be done with one hand on the wheel. Of course the transfers take a bit out of the perceived time savings. But would the actual perceived time not be closer to 1:45 versus 3:00.

I have always wondered why Amtrak does not provide a "Desk Car" class in which a guaranteed wide chair with a desk and connections would be available on certain trains. See my 60 Seat coach post from a while ago for the three across seating with two one way aisles in between the seats. Each passenger would have their own elbow room and desk space except during station stops and the occasional person walking down the aisle.

sounds like the acela (although some people argue that they don't have enough tables). The tables on the amfleet cafe's arn't that bad.

We moved from Maryland to North Carolina last year and there are no direct flights from either Wilmington, NC or Myrtle Beach to Maryland. So for me the train works. It's about the same amount of time as driving up I-95, but I can get up and move around and go to the bathroom as needed. Also, I bring my own food so when I'm hungry I eat. I like it and it's cheap enough. I took Amtrak 3 times last year and we moved down in April.

What about this trip?
Acela Regional Boston-New York
Crescent New York-New Orleans
Sunset Limited New Orleans-LA
Coast Starlight LA-Seattle
Empire Builder Seattle-Chicago
LSL Chicago-Boston

Who would want to do that rather than flying?

My 2 cents.

Amtrak coach seats = airline 1st class seats
Amtrak 1st class accomodations (plus meals and other ammenities) = no comparison with airlines
Airline coach seating = no comperable Amtrak seating (thank God)

Ability to see the country you are traveling through and the ability to detrain for brief periods at different parts of the country = no airline comparison.

For my money, its Amtrak, hands down.

I've flown Baltimore to Florida about 4 times. I used several different airlines. OK, I wouldn't have wanted to do that distance in a train unless it was the autotrain. Here's what I like about the train vs. flying in one word: Legroom. The last train I was on I couldn't even reach the seat in front of me with my feet. I'm 5'4" so that's a factor, but I had way more than enough room to put my carry on bag on the floor next to me. In a plane I had to be shiftiing positions. And my husband who's 6 feet with long legs was cramped.

Acela Regional Boston-New York
Crescent New York-New Orleans
Sunset Limited New Orleans-LA
Coast Starlight LA-Seattle
Empire Builder Seattle-Chicago
LSL Chicago-Boston

Count me as one of the ones who would do that by train any day. In the past four years, I have done both of the following trips.

10 Days (7 nights on train, 3 in hotel), first class all the way.
Boston to Washington DC to Chicago to Sacramento to LAto San Antonio to Chicago to Boston

19 Days (3 nights on airplane, 15 in hotel, 1 in karaoke bar in Tokyo), business class for most legs.
Boston to Sydney to Singapore to Hong Kong to Tokyo to Sydney to Boston

I would do the first trip again in a heartbeat. The second trip...never again! I should also add that the train trip came out to a total of about $2k. The All-Asia tour came closer to $10k (I wasn't paying!) for transportation.

Hard as it may be to accept at a special interest group such as here, outside the Northeast and Southern California corridors, I am at a loss to know why this topic even moves forth. There is simply no comparison between the two modes; Long Distance rail is simply not on the radar screen of 99% of the populace - and should naivete such as NARP's "vision" ever move forth, there will be no appreciable change from the 99%. I highly doubt if the typical family in my affluent Chicago suburb is going to head to Union Station rather than O'Hare (or in some cases, load up and put the DVD's in the SUV's player - but it seems like most families I know fly to their Winter and Spring vacation destinations) to start their vacation travels - they're just not.

Last week I did my annual Florida trip to Boca; I did not report such here as this was a 'fly and rent"; and both my Sister and I, aside from each nursing various ailments, had a lot of "family stuff' to address. I was in no mood for an "adventure" which simply is what any long distance Amtrak or auto trip represents. At both KORD and KPBI for the return, TSA formalities were over and done in ten minutes, Southward, the American Airlines flight was half hour late owing to a minor "mechanical' and offered 'flightseeing" of the Tampa Bay area and of Lake Okeechobee, Northward, the flight left ten minutes early (they can legally do that) landed KORD twenty early; again "flightseeing" along the "Florida East Coast" and on approach to KORD. Within twenty minutes of arrival at KPBI, Hertz had given me a bus ride to their facility and "put me in the driver's seat", from which i doubled back to the cell phone waiting area for my Sister's call saying she had arrived from KLGA.

As Ms. Bly has noted in some of her previous postings, "try it, it's not so bad'.

FatNoah wrote:

Acela Regional Boston-New York
Crescent New York-New Orleans
Sunset Limited New Orleans-LA
Coast Starlight LA-Seattle
Empire Builder Seattle-Chicago
LSL Chicago-Boston

Count me as one of the ones who would do that by train any day. In the past four years, I have done both of the following trips.

10 Days (7 nights on train, 3 in hotel), first class all the way.
Boston to Washington DC to Chicago to Sacramento to LAto San Antonio to Chicago to Boston

19 Days (3 nights on airplane, 15 in hotel, 1 in karaoke bar in Tokyo), business class for most legs.
Boston to Sydney to Singapore to Hong Kong to Tokyo to Sydney to Boston

I would do the first trip again in a heartbeat. The second trip...never again! I should also add that the train trip came out to a total of about $2k. The All-Asia tour came closer to $10k (I wasn't paying!) for transportation.

Unless you can get from Boston to Sydney, Singapore, Hong Kong and Tokyo by train then it's basically a moot point, is it not?

People fly overnight because they have to relocate themselves many thousands of miles in a partial day. No one gets on a plane for the sake of just getting on a plane yet that's what most people do and think little or nothing of it. People book a room on a train because they choose to instead of fly for a small number of hours.

Lastly, Acela and Regional business class seats are inferior to aircraft first class (at least on Continental).