Amtrak’s Growing Pains with Siemens Locomotives

I've heard about GE(or whatever they are called, now), EMD(cummings now?), alstom, and siemans locomotives issues.
Are brookville (who makes a passenger locomotive line ) and knoxville just as bad?

ExCon90 wrote: ↑Wed Dec 28, 2022 10:34 pmThe MP54's had a hand pump mounted below the car floor, accessible from trackside. I don't know about the Silverliners -- never thought about it before.

ApproachMedium wrote: ↑Wed Dec 28, 2022 10:40 pmSilverliners and arrows have a hand pump under a seat

Those hand pumps only released the hold down latch, springs raised the pantographs.

I dont believe they use CAN in the ACS and ALC locomotives. I absolutely know they use Ethernet. All nodes are connected via ethernet jacks, and when we plug a laptop in to the loco to service it, its not done via a Serial Gateway like CAN (My backround is network engineering, and i tinker with CAN based vws to save my life). So when you want to talk to vehicle systems you plug the PC in the ethernet jack under the firemans side, set the IP to something on the network and then the SIBAS G software can speak with everything on the engines.

JimBoylan wrote: ↑Thu Dec 29, 2022 10:36 am Those hand pumps only released the hold down latch, springs raised the pantographs.

No, they also allowed the MCB to close. As i mentioned above the pans were spring raised.

scratchyX1 wrote: ↑Thu Dec 29, 2022 9:09 am I've heard about GE(or whatever they are called, now), EMD(cummings now?), alstom, and siemans locomotives issues.
Are brookville (who makes a passenger locomotive line ) and knoxville just as bad?

Unless I misremember, GE is now Wabtec; EMD is now Caterpillar.

charlesriverbranch wrote: ↑Fri Dec 30, 2022 1:51 pm

scratchyX1 wrote: ↑Thu Dec 29, 2022 9:09 am I've heard about GE(or whatever they are called, now), EMD(cummings now?), alstom, and siemans locomotives issues.
Are brookville (who makes a passenger locomotive line ) and knoxville just as bad?

Unless I misremember, GE is now Wabtec; EMD is now Caterpillar.

GE went to Wabtec and are offically Wabtec engines. Caterpillar bought EMD via their Progress Rail division but kept the initials, making EMD stand for "Electro-Motive Diesel". Progress Rail operates as EMD.

EMD was named ElectroMotive Diesel from 2005 onward when GM first spun them out to private equity... long before Progress entered the picture.

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eolesen wrote: ↑Fri Dec 30, 2022 10:22 pm EMD was named ElectroMotive Diesel from 2005 onward when GM first spun them out to private equity... long before Progress entered the picture.

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NO one here has experiences with Brookville or Knoxville locomotives?
what software are they running?

I blame Amtrak. They either don't exercise quality or change control over their suppliers or they have specified requirements that are so unattainable / unrealistic in terms of the emissions or performance of these locomotives that the suppliers have to keep tweaking and breaking the software....

That's why you don't see these types of problems with the freight models.

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LMAO yea ok. Laughing here in all the failed GE Tier 4 prime movers, and warranty claims. Do you know why GE sold the locomotive business?

Ill give you one guess. It wasnt because it was making too much money and they sold it to make some huge profit. Siemens controls the entire parts chain for the Siemens products. THEY are 100% responsible for the parts issues, and they keep things away from amtrak as much as they can. They refuse to supply parts unless their own people provide the parts and diagnostics.

That must be some contract!

Per a press release, the contract for these locomotives "incorporates both the manufacturing as well as the long-term service agreement for technical support, spare parts, and material supply." I haven't read the actual contract, but this could mean that Siemens is refusing to let Amtrak shop personnel work on their equipment not because Siemens doesn't want to have others do the work, but that Siemens is contractually obligated to do that work.

Incidentally, the businesses that GE has not spun out are the businesses where GE also gets contracts to provide most if not all maintenance services for their products. What has happened is that manufacturers of complex systems have learned that providing "something-as-a-service" provides a significantly more stable revenue stream than actually selling that something. Customers have figured out that this model means they don't need the initial outlay or financing to purchase the product, and can spread that out over time. (I work for a niche software company that is transitioning from selling software with a "perpetual" license to a single version to selling software as a service--we have figured out that we get an increased and more stable revenue stream per customer while pricing our software such that our customers would need to not upgrade for 5 years or more for the service model to be more expensive than the perpetual license model (we've identified only two customers who would not benefit from switching to the service model based on their regulatory requirements)). It may turn out that this is a workable model for passenger rail as it exists today (where every engine can be cycled through a few core shops frequently).

Are operators not in Chicago having the same degree of problems with the Siemens Chargers as Amtrak Midwest and LD services are? (Going back through other forums, I keep hearing that Amtrak's Chicago maintenance operations are a problem regardless of equipment.)

" I keep hearing that Amtrak's Chicago maintenance operations are a problem regardless of equipment."

Anyone who has written up an engine going into Sunnyside yard in the Queens and gets the same equipment back has seen has seen this famous statement:

Can not duplicate SSYD

How many times have I been told a train set is ready to be dispatched out of the Albany shop only to climb up and find missing or improperly filled out paperwork, train control issues or other such problems that need to be corrected before it leaves.

It's not just Chicago

The Lake Shore is Amtraks Hot Potato. SSYD puts a work order in on car going to chicago because they have the parts. Car comes back 2 days later, not fixed. Electric locomotives are a hot potato for amtrak NY and DC. NY doesnt have a shop that can really do much of the work. It fits 2 engines at a time. No overhead roof removal, only pantographs. DC has a much bigger shop at ivy city. NY sends engine to DC for heavier work. DC station motor pit gets it, sees it has a pulse and turns it around. These problems existed long before Siemens got involved. It doesnt help that the siemens product is not that great to start, so now you have a crappy product with the few people who DO fix stuff trying to chase problems that are rooted in software fixes to try and cover up poor hardware choices.

So you are saying I have something to look forward to
Please just let me run GE's for the next five years.