Amtrak Profit Center- Auto Train

eolesen wrote: ↑Thu Sep 01, 2022 3:36 pm It's not an extension. It's an expansion. If Amtrak were a customer or profit driven organization, they'd have already looked at this. But they aren't.

Based on what CSX and NS are demanding to allow an extra train from Harrisburg to Pittsburgh and two trains to Mobile, those railroads would require a minimum of couple billion dollars of capitol improvements to allow a new auto train route, killing any potential to profit from that route for years if not decades. It's not only possible Amtrak has looked at it, but that they've rejected it as not an expense they could get past Congress.

Amtrak has pretty easy access to valuable marketing data regarding ridership data--just look at the license plates as the cars are loaded into the auto racks. If the majority of the loaded cars are local to the Lorton/Sanford regions, then there may be an untapped market in other areas. But, if the cars are coming from a wide region, it might indicate that starting a new service would cannibalize the existing service and create two barely profitable or two unprofitable train lines.

Mr Olesen’s proposal is certainly interesting. I do think if you’re only going to have one train with two end points as now the Lorton endpoint makes sense as it Is a good collection point for the whole northeast. If you moved it up to NYC your chop out a whole portion of the northeast megalopolis that you can draw from. However if you were to add a second frequency or move the northern terminus to NYC area but maintain a Lorton collection point where somehow the train could pick up passengers and vehicles there that would be a different ball game. I do hope that when Amtrak gets into fleet procurement for long distance service that figuring out the future of the A-T is front and center priority wise given it’s success.

Most of the time when I tell general people who haven’t used Amtrak about all my Amtrak trips they are most interested and curious about the Auto Train and the concept of it.

RandallW wrote:

eolesen wrote: ↑Thu Sep 01, 2022 3:36 pm It's not an extension. It's an expansion. If Amtrak were a customer or profit driven organization, they'd have already looked at this. But they aren't.

Based on what CSX and NS are demanding to allow an extra train from Harrisburg to Pittsburgh and two trains to Mobile, those railroads would require a minimum of couple billion dollars of capitol improvements to allow a new auto train route, killing any potential to profit from that route for years if not decades. It's not only possible Amtrak has looked at it, but that they've rejected it as not an expense they could get past Congress.

I don't think you can really compare a coastal single track main line with 9 to 13 bascule bridges on it against an inland double track main line on the East Coast...

What expenses has Congress ever reviewed and rejected for amtrak? Certainly not staffing at tiny stations.

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Vincent wrote: ↑Thu Sep 01, 2022 7:40 pm Amtrak has pretty easy access to valuable marketing data regarding ridership data--just look at the license plates as the cars are loaded into the auto racks. If the majority of the loaded cars are local to the Lorton/Sanford regions, then there may be an untapped market in other areas. But, if the cars are coming from a wide region, it might indicate that starting a new service would cannibalize the existing service and create two barely profitable or two unprofitable train lines.

I wouldn't take a simplistic view of the data, but instead look at context. Plus, they don't need to look at the license plates -- they just need to get the booking/billing data of the tickets! If it's booked and billed to a Virginia, DC, or Maryland address... fine, they're taking about 1-2 hours to get to Lorton. That's "local". But outside of that, it's "not local".

Now if the trains are booked full for months on end, and they're a heady mix of local and non-local... well, you're leaving money on the table and you need to add more service.

eolesen wrote: ↑Fri Sep 02, 2022 9:40 am What expenses has Congress ever reviewed and rejected for amtrak? Certainly not staffing at tiny stations.

I know of few if any small stations manned by Amtrak personnel unless they are at a refueling or crew change location.