Amtrak Palmetto Service

With Amtrak, when engines are required to move light from one terminal to another, or a shop to a terminal, are there dedicated crews for this that specificly perform this task and don't work in revenue passenger service?

I would expect that the engine would get attached to the next most convenient passenger run, and dropped off at the destination terminal. The regular revenue run's crew would handle it.

Perhaps the said electric is headed for Wilmington? I've been on I-495 in Delaware in the middle of the night and have frequently seen light engine moves being performed (at one point I saw 3 HHPs lashed up, one behind the other heading in the direction of the Wilmington shops). Most recently I saw a P42 with two Amfleet coaches headed in the same location, at speed, but it clearly wasn't a revenue train and no other equipment was attached.

Perhaps dropping the loco off at Philly is the most logical option as it's easier to get the equipment out of the way, in addition to having yard crews readily available as opposed to actually doing this at the Wilmington station (albeit closer to the presumed destination).

I would presume that it would be a dispatching nightmare on the NEC to perform such an operation at Wilmington. Remember that it's easier to route later trains around the Palmetto's engine swap at a multi-track (i forget the total number of tracks) station like 30th street as opposed to the three-track station at Wilmington.

Of course this is all speculation and I humbly welcome correction from a much better informed source

In all the times I've been to Wilmington station, I've never seen an engine change there. Maybe they've happened from a dead engine, but there aren't really spare tracks to store engines on unless you go to the west side yard or all the way up at the Wilmington shops.

Washington Terminal may have periods of congestion when the powers to be determine that the engine change might work out better for one or more trains at 30th Street, Philadelphia instead.
Incidentally the Pennsylvanian still changes from electric to diesel there or at least it did the last I knew.
Noel Weaver

That's the only train left at Philly that does a "regular" engine change, along with what's been stated here about the Palmetto. It could be an equipment move etc. Just seems odd that this is the train of choice considering they could move engines from NYP to Philly on the Pennsylvanian (then light move to the Delaware shops). Then there's also #66/67 as well as the morning train from just Philly to Washington DC that could be run with electric or diesel if Amtrak wanted to.

Noel Weaver wrote: Incidentally the Pennsylvanian still changes from electric to diesel there or at least it did the last I knew.
Noel Weaver

Well that would make sense, because I can't believe that Amtrak has the personnel or facilities in Harrisburg, for the sake of just the Pennsylvanian.

Noel Weaver wrote: Incidentally the Pennsylvanian still changes from electric to diesel there or at least it did the last I knew.
Noel Weaver

Two recent posts on the Unique Equipment Sightings Thread illustrate the Pennsylvanian engine change at 30th Street.

chuchubob wrote:Train 43 Pennsylvanian had PV NYC 3 "Portland" on Saturday.
train 43 departing for Harrisburg and Pittsburgh with NYC 3 "Portland"

chuchubob wrote:Train 42 Pennsylvanian brought NYC 3 "Portland" back from Pittsburgh on Monday.
HHP-8 651 with NYC 3 "Portland" departing 30th Street for New York.

goodnightjohnwayne wrote: Well that would make sense, because I can't believe that Amtrak has the personnel or facilities in Harrisburg, for the sake of just the Pennsylvanian.

It's only one train a day, I'm sure they could change the power there if they wanted to. they keep a diesel protect there for the Keystone service as it is and change power from time to time at Harrisburg. As is, the time savings probably isn't worth it. Amtrak also does contract work for NS at Philly and the power used for work trains on the corridor.

If what I saw last week is any indication, this practice is no longer limited to the Palmetto or they've switched the train.

Based on the time of day it looked like train 85 was the train that pulled into Penn Station with a P42 up front. This would make sense as the trains terminus is Richmond, VA.

Kyle

I've been reading some interesting posts here regarding a few interesting but diverse topics including:
1) Amtrak is going to reintroduce sleeper service on 66/67 when Viewliner 2s arrive.
2) Amtrak is studying the possibility of Chicago - Florida service by combining the Capitol Limited and Silver Star (losing one NYP-FLA train) using Superliner equipment.
3) Amtrak is studying extending the Palmetto to Miami (restoring the above lost NYP-FLA train).
4) Amtrak should introduce through Boston - Florida Silver Service.

So I got to thinking, could these great ideas be combined? And to my surprise after studying the schedules, it's not all that crazy an idea. So I propose the new Silver Palmetto/Night Owl:

The New "Silver Palmetto" Schedule
(The old "Night Owl"/"Palmetto")

9:30PM BOSTON 7:00AM
2:20AM NEW YORK 1:40AM
6:57AM Ar WASHINGTON 9:00PM
7:55AM Dp WASHINGTON 7:57PM
9:50AM Ar Richmond Dp 5:25PM
10:02AM Dp Richmond Ar 5:15PM
3:23PM Ar Florence Dp 11:39AM
3:28PM Dp Florence Ar 11:34AM
7:03PM Ar Savannah Dp 8:20AM
7:50PM Lv Savannah Ar 8:10AM
10:23PM Ar Jacksonville Dp 5:40AM
10:48PM Dp Jacksonville Ar 4:48AM
1:55AM Ar Orlando Dp 1:35AM
2:10AM Lv Orlando Ar 1:23AM
8:00AM MIAMI 8:20PM

Now I would really love to see this on the FEC, but I routed it through Orlando for comparison (although the times are poor at Orlando they are better at Miami going inland). The schedule works pretty well and also offers a roughly 12 hour alternative schedule through Florida. So it does satisfy all of the above plans and ideas in one fell swoop.

PS: I should add that this new schedule would allow easy same-day transfers between most major east coast cities to and from the massive Fort Lauderdale/Miami cruise ship market not now possible.

Very nice.

I might offer a change or two.

I think leaving BOS a tad earlier is definitely an option. But, that may not make much sense, see below.

Also, once you have Viewliner baggage cars, you can actually make better time since they're rated for a higher speed than the current baggage cars.

That said, I think the best you could do is move your WAS arrival an hour earlier. You really don't want to get there TOO early, but I think an hour earlier, or even 1/2 hour earlier is reasonable. This means you can arrive/depart NYP a bit earlier which makes this a bit more feasible there.

NB, I'd seriously consider leaving Miami at 6:00 AM. That makes the Orlando NB times almost reasonable.

The "problem" I think you run into is honestly, you don't necessarily want the "Night Owl" portion to be too fast (since if it is, BOS-WAS sleepers can't get a decent night's sleep. But, ideally you want the "Palmetto" section to be faster I think.

But overall, I really like this idea.

(Heck, if you really want to get fancy, setup the "Night Owl" portion with a set-out sleeper or two.)

Well, as good as it would be to have Boston-Florida sleeper service, I don't think a lot of people other than say rail buffs or people who have a bunch of time can stay on a train for a day and a half. JMO

lirr415 wrote:Well, as good as it would be to have Boston-Florida sleeper service, I don't think a lot of people other than say rail buffs or people who have a bunch of time can stay on a train for a day and a half. JMO

New England to Florida is a very popular market. My girlfriend and I take the train from Boston to Florida at least yearly and meet a lot of people who do the same. The last time we left Boston in the morning and arrived Jacksonville the next morning. It went pretty quickly. Don't forget you are sleeping half the time.

Also, Amtrak seriously wants to offer Chicago to Florida service and that would be TWO NIGHTS! Comparably Boston to Florida is a cakewalk!

lirr415 wrote:Well, as good as it would be to have Boston-Florida sleeper service, I don't think a lot of people other than say rail buffs or people who have a bunch of time can stay on a train for a day and a half. JMO

Well, they do for almost two days between Chicago and the West Coast, but they travel on Superliners that provide far more room to roam about the train. If you get bored in your coach seat, or in your sleeping cabin, you can visit the Sightseer Lounge to meet other passengers, a facility lacking on Viewliner trains.
Additionally, a better schedule for day and a half trains is to leave the original station in the afternoon, and arrive in the destination station on the second morning. Hotels start and stop charging daily charges around noon. It'll be better to leave Boston in the afternoon, reach New York around twilight, reach D.C. around midnight, travel in the wee hours and morning through Virginia, Carolinas, and Georgia, and be in Florida in the afternoon and reach Miami by midnight. A 12 hour layover in Miami means leaving Miami in the afternoon, and reach Boston by midnight the following day, where the cycle repeats.

Let train 66 & 67 be the twilight departures and morning arrivals from Boston. I really don't see that many Bostonians wishing to travel al the way to Florida anyways. Train 66 & 67 will service the overnight business from Boston to Virginia. Once you start going much further south, you must start allocating additional train sets for that route, which will quickly consume the available diners, sleepers, and long distance Amfleet II coaches, all of which Amtrak has in short supply.