Amtrak Heartland Flyer Discussion and Possible Extension

From TrainWeb they list four ex-ATSF hi-level coaches (all Budd-built in 1956 for El Capitan service) as being in Heartland Flyer service.

39940 ATSF-700
39952 ATSF-712
39953 ATSF-713
39957 ATSF-717

Interestingly enough, they were rebuilt to HEP cars in 1981 or thereabouts at Santa Fe's Topeka Kansas shops.

I think I read somewhere they may be currently owned or leased by Oklahoma DOT. The Flyer exists only because of a state subsidy from Oklahoma (Texas does not provide any funding).

When 821 pulled in at Ardmore I immediately noticed the two ex-ATSF cars looked different and older then the Superliner in the middle of the consist. At the time I didn't know their heritage, though. When I climbed aboard 39940 I got the feeling it had been around a while. It seemed pretty well broken in, but it rode well and was nice and warm on a cold morning. I enjoyed the ride. I was surprised as heck to discover later it was an actual former Santa Fe car and 50 years old!

Tommy, well, just think, you rode on a jewel of an Santa fe passenger car. Most of those are gone, mostly thanks to Amtrak.... but, I really like the old ATSF's. They have a certain character about them. Were they in Superliner colors, or still Santa Fe Silver?

FWIW,

The ATSF Hi-Levels, including the 1954 testbed cars, were painted to Phase I pretty darn fast.

I rode the 1972 resurrection of the Chief. I remember all the H-Levels I saw being repainted even that early. Did enjoy the Warbonnet F7 fleet of A-ABBA on the point though

Darn, was hoping they maybe survived getting Phase 1.

James I'm linking a photo of the Flyer just leaving Ardmore on the way to Ft Worth. It was taken by Bill Acord in 2001 but the equipment is the same today. It shows two of the ex-ATSF coaches in the consist, in the Amtrak Superliner livery. You can see they're a bit lower in height than the Amtrak Superliner in the middle.

http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f166/ ... RDMORE.jpg

At least one of the Heartland Flyer's ex-Santa Fe high levels is in Beech Grove. Any word on whether they are being retired and replaced with Superliner equipment?

Gad, they were (and are) good looking cars.

Dunno. Does any member have word?

I'd bet on Amfleet (since there is a surplus of those) before I'd bet on SLs, if the Santa Fe cars are finally ready for retirement.

OTOH, it may just be time for inspection or shopping, and these cars don't exactly routinely route themselves through Chicago very often anymore!

What I found more interesting was 10-6 (now dorm) 2504 in the shop!

John_Perkowski wrote:What I found more interesting was 10-6 (now dorm) 2504 in the shop!

One can only hope that Amtrak management has come to its senses and reversed the decision to retire Heritage crew dorms and diners until suitable replacements can be ordered. But I doubt it.

Is the concern with the Heritage cars simply the cost associated with overhauling trucks and other wear items? How are the carbody structures themselves? Any fatigue issues?

If the 50 yeard old Budd equipment really was built better than much of the new stuff, it would be insane to scrap it only to replace it with inferior rolling stock. Diner 8528 looks as good as new on the outside! Shame it's sitting idle in Beech Grove, while passengers get to look forward to pre-cooked meals in an Amcan.

This is a placeholder post.

Illinois Transit Assembly Corporation has some specific commentary on Budd cars and frame life-cycles. When I can I will post it.

Maybe the car is awaiting maintainence or an overhaul.

Rumor is the Hi levels are of certain trains as they will all be used on one route after overhaul, no talk about retirement.

Looking at some north-south mid-continent routes:

http://www.newsobserver.com/2012/01/03/ ... opose.html

FORT WORTH, Texas -- Passenger rail advocates are pushing to bring back Amtrak service from Fort Worth to Kansas City, Mo., after a 33-year hiatus.
Even if things go well, it will likely be several years before the old Lone Star route, which was discontinued in 1979, can be resurrected - and that's only if supporters cobble together startup funds of $136.5 million to $475 million from the federal government and the states served along the way.

But if it could be done, the Lone Star route today would serve up to 368,000 passengers per year, according to a service development plan completed in November. That would be more passengers than the line carried in its heyday, a supporter said.

...

The service development plan was prepared by the Parsons Brinckerhoff consulting firm for the Kansas and Oklahoma transportation departments. It details a few options, including a proposed extension of the Heartland Flyer service from its current northern terminus at Oklahoma City to Newton, Kan., a nighttime service that could be started for about $136.5 million in capital costs and $4.4 million in annual operating costs.

Another option would be to supplement the Heartland Flyer service with a new Fort Worth-to-Oklahoma City route, which would run through Kansas in the daytime and have $436 million in capital costs and $10 million in annual operating costs.

Combining both services would total $475 million in capital costs, plus $13.7 million in annual operating costs.

The plan would include track improvements along Fort Worth-based BNSF Railway's freight corridor, which is now used by the Heartland Flyer.

Read more here: http://www.newsobserver.com/2012/01/03/ ... rylink=cpy

An additional story:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle ... story.html

One option it examined would provide nighttime passenger train service between Fort Worth, Texas, and Newton, Kansas. Another would establish daytime service between Fort Worth and Kansas City. Both options would use an existing stretch of Burlington Northern Santa Fe tracks that pass through Lawrence, Topeka and Wichita in Kansas as well as Oklahoma City.

At one time, Amtrak ran the Lone Star all the way from Chicago to Houston. Typical Amtrak policy, eliminating a long distance train requiring zero state subsidies, then later advocating for shorter distance trains that do, that is everywhere except the Northeast Corridor.

I'm against it. It's just too sparse of a route to make sense. Especially given that there are other existing and potential routes with far more dense concentrations of people. I'd support another Heartland Flyer or an extension of the KC-STL trains to Topeka, but the rest of the route doesn't make sense. One-a-day thru Wichita will not do much.