AEM7 Disposition (and other motors - HHP8)

ApproachMedium wrote:

LIRR272 wrote:As far as the HHP-8 systems and components, yes they are the same as those on the power cars.

Not really. There are no major drop in interchangable parts between the HHP-8 and the Acela, and that includes trucks traction motors and brakes. Even the computers have minor differences between major differences in software and minor differences in input output cards etc.

But seeing as how Bomb owns the HHP8 and acela trains, and Alstom is the parts vendor/supplier when bomb takes the engines back if Amtrak buys the Acela trains I doubt you will see any kind of parts exchange happen there, at least not as simply as oh hey this is the same lets take it and use it here! Not without some big money spending.

Approach,

Alot of the system on both power cars and HHP-8 are the same. The propuslion modules are the same, the on board diagnostics are the same, the event recorders are the same. I'm going to stop there. All that needs to be done is hook a laptop to the systems and do some minor software changes. The physical components can fit directly in the same rack space. There were some cases where a component wasn't available on the convention side, it was borrowed from HSR. That process did stop. I have yet to see how a HHP truck is different than a power car.

Now when it comes to the money issue with parts, yeah I agree with you on that.

Its a lot more than just a laptop and some stuff. I been a loco tech for amtrak for the last few years, and its really not that simple. Silly things like the ITSU, ARU (event recorder) etc are the same yes but the major propulsion MPUs need a software flash but I think they are different too. I recall the AEM-7 Av having ones labed AEM, the HHP-8 was NEC for its codename of NEC 551, and the HSR I think had something different. The physical cards were different so they could not be swapped but the Agate controllers and power modules could. Stuff like the onboard diagnostics and whatnot is smaller stuff that really doesnt matter. The high speed dept has plenty of parts for their trains and really does not have the issues that the low speed side has with HHPs and parts.

The differnce in trucks is very big underneath. The HHP-8 has much larger traction motors and different mounting for them. The Acela power cars have much smaller motors. Also the Acela power cars only require 3 or 4 power circuit sets of power modules and computers to operate while the HHP-8 has 5.

I never really worked on HST stuff but I most def know my way around the NEC 551 (HHP8). Plenty of times we have done parts exchange with high speed but its only in the extremely rare situation that they are in dire need of a part that they cannot get, and it has to get the approval of the hire ups that run the place.

ApproachMedium wrote:Its a lot more than just a laptop and some stuff. I been a loco tech for amtrak for the last few years, and its really not that simple. Silly things like the ITSU, ARU (event recorder) etc are the same yes but the major propulsion MPUs need a software flash but I think they are different too. I recall the AEM-7 Av having ones labed AEM, the HHP-8 was NEC for its codename of NEC 551, and the HSR I think had something different. The physical cards were different so they could not be swapped but the Agate controllers and power modules could. Stuff like the onboard diagnostics and whatnot is smaller stuff that really doesnt matter. The high speed dept has plenty of parts for their trains and really does not have the issues that the low speed side has with HHPs and parts.

The differnce in trucks is very big underneath. The HHP-8 has much larger traction motors and different mounting for them. The Acela power cars have much smaller motors. Also the Acela power cars only require 3 or 4 power circuit sets of power modules and computers to operate while the HHP-8 has 5.

I never really worked on HST stuff but I most def know my way around the NEC 551 (HHP8). Plenty of times we have done parts exchange with high speed but its only in the extremely rare situation that they are in dire need of a part that they cannot get, and it has to get the approval of the hire ups that run the place.

I didn't know that the traction motors were different. I do know the propulsion systems are different. What I meant about the laptop was using it to reprogram the software that controls the propulsion systems. However, before that is done, alot of testing and re-writing of the software would have to take place. Now that two trainsets have new propulsion software on them with more to come, alot more stuff will be different. Physical size of most componets are the same, but not location. Thanks for the info.

On Sept. 23 AEM-7AC #940 caught fire after departing Parkesburg with train #641. It was towed back to Phila later that evening. Also reman #927 has been spotted in Phila. with apparent fire damage. In light of the impending deliveries of the ACS-64's it will be interesting to see what happens to these veteran motors.

Andy

twropr wrote:On Sept. 23 AEM-7AC #940 caught fire after departing Parkesburg with train #641. It was towed back to Phila later that evening. Also reman #927 has been spotted in Phila. with apparent fire damage. In light of the impending deliveries of the ACS-64's it will be interesting to see what happens to these veteran motors.

Andy

They will probably be repaired since they are AEM-7 ACs. There's still 5 HHP-8s OOS for various things in Wilmington alone, two stored dead. It does create a pressing situation but they do have parts for the AC remans while the HHPs are much harder to get parts for.

Are the HHP's less reliable than the Acela Express locomotives?

ApproachMedium wrote:

twropr wrote:On Sept. 23 AEM-7AC #940 caught fire after departing Parkesburg with train #641. It was towed back to Phila later that evening. Also reman #927 has been spotted in Phila. with apparent fire damage. In light of the impending deliveries of the ACS-64's it will be interesting to see what happens to these veteran motors.

Andy

They will probably be repaired since they are AEM-7 ACs. There's still 5 HHP-8s OOS for various things in Wilmington alone, two stored dead. It does create a pressing situation but they do have parts for the AC remans while the HHPs are much harder to get parts for.

The facts as presented are a gross exaggeration. I'm still unsure why people think 927 was on fire but it is up and running along with the 940.

ThirdRail7 wrote:

ApproachMedium wrote:

twropr wrote:On Sept. 23 AEM-7AC #940 caught fire after departing Parkesburg with train #641. It was towed back to Phila later that evening. Also reman #927 has been spotted in Phila. with apparent fire damage. In light of the impending deliveries of the ACS-64's it will be interesting to see what happens to these veteran motors.

Andy

They will probably be repaired since they are AEM-7 ACs. There's still 5 HHP-8s OOS for various things in Wilmington alone, two stored dead. It does create a pressing situation but they do have parts for the AC remans while the HHPs are much harder to get parts for.

The facts as presented are a gross exaggeration. I'm still unsure why people think 927 was on fire but it is up and running along with the 940.

Yea that always seems to be the case. Saw 927 on the road today.

mtuandrew wrote:

Nasadowsk wrote:

Any chance they could end up in Estonia?

No.

Especially since the only electrification in Estonia uses 3kv dc.

Also, assuming there was any interest in used passenger motors, why wouldn't a buyer/lessee first approach NJT and ask about their considerably newer ALP-44 fleet? Are Amtrak's AEM-7DCs better maintained despite their age? Would the non-running status of the ALP-44s make them less attractive for some reason? (Note: I am NOT advocating such usage, just asking!)

Not to mention too that the track gauge in Estonia is Russian Broad Gauge!

Jishnu wrote:

mtuandrew wrote:

Nasadowsk wrote:

Any chance they could end up in Estonia?

No.

Especially since the only electrification in Estonia uses 3kv dc.

Not to mention too that the track gauge in Estonia is Russian Broad Gauge!

Beautiful little country though - if any of you get to Scandinavia, do yourself a favor, take the overnight ferry to Estonia (and break Rule G with the rest of the passengers), and spend a day or a few around Tallinn. Looks like it came straight out of the 1600s.

-----

On another note, who actually owns the HHP-8s? Is it Bombardier either directly or through a holding company, Amtrak, a jointly-owned venture, or some third party? I'm sure I'm not the only person who can't keep their ownership straight.

mtuandrew wrote:

Jishnu wrote:

mtuandrew wrote:

Nasadowsk wrote:

Any chance they could end up in Estonia?

No.

Especially since the only electrification in Estonia uses 3kv dc.

Not to mention too that the track gauge in Estonia is Russian Broad Gauge!

Beautiful little country though - if any of you get to Scandinavia, do yourself a favor, take the overnight ferry to Estonia (and break Rule G with the rest of the passengers), and spend a day or a few around Tallinn. Looks like it came straight out of the 1600s.

-----

On another note, who actually owns the HHP-8s? Is it Bombardier either directly or through a holding company, Amtrak, a jointly-owned venture, or some third party? I'm sure I'm not the only person who can't keep their ownership straight.

Bombardier.

mtuandrew wrote:

Jishnu wrote:

mtuandrew wrote:

Nasadowsk wrote:

Any chance they could end up in Estonia?

No.

Especially since the only electrification in Estonia uses 3kv dc.

Not to mention too that the track gauge in Estonia is Russian Broad Gauge!

Beautiful little country though - if any of you get to Scandinavia, do yourself a favor, take the overnight ferry to Estonia (and break Rule G with the rest of the passengers), and spend a day or a few around Tallinn. Looks like it came straight out of the 1600s.

From Helsinki you can do a day trip to Tallinn by ferry. I have done so three times. Beautiful little city with city walls from Teutonic Knights and Hansaetic League times.

As for the HHP-8s, I think they will essentially be parked when enough ACS-64s are on property, irrespective of who owns them.

Jishnu wrote:

mtuandrew wrote:

Jishnu wrote:

mtuandrew wrote:

Nasadowsk wrote:

Any chance they could end up in Estonia?

No.

Especially since the only electrification in Estonia uses 3kv dc.

Not to mention too that the track gauge in Estonia is Russian Broad Gauge!

Beautiful little country though - if any of you get to Scandinavia, do yourself a favor, take the overnight ferry to Estonia (and break Rule G with the rest of the passengers), and spend a day or a few around Tallinn. Looks like it came straight out of the 1600s.

From Helsinki you can do a day trip to Tallinn by ferry. I have done so three times. Beautiful little city with city walls from Teutonic Knights and Hansaetic League times.

As for the HHP-8s, I think they will essentially be parked when enough ACS-64s are on property, irrespective of who owns them.

If what Approach said is true.. One third are already OOS.

Bumping this thread since the first Sprinter is now in revenue service. ThirdRail, you said several sources have mentioned the same locomotive as being first to go once more Sprinters come online.. Which one is the goner?

Two HHP-8s were already down for the count before the first ACS even went in service. Nothing else is being taken offline just yet, amtrak is still power short.