When will the West of Hudson coaches be in service?

Anynews on the old West of Hudson coaches that came over to the East of Hudson & will they be in use on the East of Hudson service anytime soon & will the coach numbers be renumbered when they go into service.

no news., no engines.

dose anyone have pictures of these cars

regular end door Bombardier cars with black window band and MNCR logo's.
a few cars are blue window banded.

They've got all three of the past MTA logos (two-tone M, M in a circle, and Pac-Man logo)

Here are some pics I took a while back at Highbridge

Were these cars ever used in East of the Hudson service before moving over to West of the Hudson, and then back? They look alot like the old cars that we use to have to Poughkeepsie on the Hudson line (atleast the blue striped named ones). I was wondering what these cars were when I webt by high bridge last month.

The blue-stripe cars were (are) original Shoreliner (East-of-Hudson) coaches. When they went West-of-Hudson, the names on the cars were changed to reflect communities/places/people in the area between Suffern and Port Jervis. The cab cars were renumbered to reflect NJ Transit compatibility, and the trailers kept their as-given Metro-North numbers.

The black-stripe cars were painted as such so that they would better blend in when mixed with NJ Transit coaches. Indeed, they were built to NJT specs.

It's my understanding that the black striped Bombs are Comet's built to NJT spec, technically, and mechanically like any other NJT coach. There are photos of "blue striped" Shoreliners on WOH which appear to originally be EOH due to their lack of a firemans window.

-Tom

Can anyone think of a reason why these coaches could not be used to provide service in EOH diesel areas when there are a high number of coaches out of service? Over the past few weeks I have been on a number of shortened trains, and even trains with more than one cab unit in a consist. If there is no mechanical work that needs to be performed on these units, why not run them?

Nester wrote:Can anyone think of a reason why these coaches could not be used to provide service in EOH diesel areas when there are a high number of coaches out of service? Over the past few weeks I have been on a number of shortened trains, and even trains with more than one cab unit in a consist. If there is no mechanical work that needs to be performed on these units, why not run them?

Because there is mechanical work that needs to be done, and it's not insignificant work, either in import or in cost.

The cars need to have their braking systems changed out to be compatible with the EOH fleet. I want to say they have drum and EOH cars have disc brakes, but it could be the other way around, or some combination...I don't recall the details. But the work is costly and there's not enough money to do it. They can't run in the EOH fleet without having the work done.

At this time there isn't any plan that has actual dates on it. :(

Jim

So instead of using this equipment as sets, it will sit and the MTA will buy more new equipment so they can be further into debt. Why rebuild or repair when we can buy new.

And CDOT has to go to VRE to buy cars, while these sit... and sit....

Spro wrote:So instead of using this equipment as sets, it will sit and the MTA will buy more new equipment so they can be further into debt. Why rebuild or repair when we can buy new.

And CDOT has to go to VRE to buy cars, while these sit... and sit....

You seem to be overlooking a few facts...first, that these cars need to be pulled by a locomotive...of which there are no spares.

Second, there isn't a critical shortage of diesel-hauled equipment on the Hudson and Harlem that would be abated by their being placed in service.

Third, there are no current plans to purchase additional diesel-hauled coaches, so there's no money being wasted that could be saved by placing these cars in service.

Finally, you overlook the fact that CDOT is responsible for their own mess. It's not the MTA's responsibility to bail out the state of Connecticut for its shortsighted mismanagement of the New Haven Line. I'm sure that if CDOT expressed an interest in these cars, then MTA would be glad to work out a lease agreement, probably on more favorable terms than Amtrak did for the Genesis engines.

Jim

Jim, your assessment is partially correct, yes my facts file may be thin, but my observations as a state of New York taxpayer are not. I am a railfan, but I continue to have difficulty with the number of authorities in New York, the fact they have so little accountability to any one and their stewardship of the public moneys they receive. The MTA is on the top of the list, followed by the Thruway and Bridge Authority.

The mess in Connecticut has been caused by Connecticut, but I believe New York has a like a 20-30 percent cost share of the New Haven operations, so the extra money Metro-North is using trying to keep a fleet of cars running without proper shops and scheduled overhauls has to spill into other areas.

If Metro North has equipment that can be used elsewhere on their own system, it would be far more cost effective to cooperate within your own organization or the one you work with every single day instead of going out of state. The lack of locomotives either way had to be resolved.

My gripe with this buying binge is the number of M-7's, and the fact the M-1's have never received a heavy overhaul, and could be made usable for another 20 years at a far lesser cost then bringing on-line a huge amount of the same type of equipment that will have to be replace all at once again.
Since I have not seen the Engineering economics assessment of an overhaul of the M-1 Fleet, or a partial overhaul/partial scrap program, I am speaking without a facts folder. However, going out a limb, I bet very little was done to consider this. While it would be most desirable to have one fleet of all the same equipment would be the most cost effective, from a pure operations standpoint it's not smart. If next year we have another R-42 truck incident, and 700 M-7's are deemed unsafe, I don't think the M-3's are going to be able to pick up the slack. Or if in 3 or 4 years there is some massive early life failure of components now you have most of cars exposed all at once.

The west of the Hudson cars I believe are between 15 and 20 years old, and they should have quite a bit of service life in them. Metro North has a chance to recover some the cost of these cars by using them where they are needed, which the management is very aware of, but instead they have been sitting in Highbridge. Connecticut can use them, and I understand the MBTA may be short some equipment, they run the same cars. If Metro North can't use them, they should look for someone that can and reduce their debt load.

I apologize for not explaining my self better before.

MN Jim wrote:Second, there isn't a critical shortage of diesel-hauled equipment on the Hudson and Harlem that would be abated by their being placed in service.

Are you a commuter? Do you ride the Upper Hudson? There have been sporadic shortages of equipment since the mid-January blizzard. Short trains, multiple cab units, cars with center doors inoperable, etc. Running shorter trains (or trains with broken doors) increases "dwell time" at stations by forcing more people through fewer egress/ingress points. Late trains screw everyone.

Correct me if I am wrong, but if there no mechanical reason why the cars cannot run as replacements for cars that are out of service (even if it means taking out more cars since they are incompatible), then why not do it? A 7-car WOH consist is better for the passengers than a 5 car EOH consist on a train that is normally scheduled for 7-cars, especially if the 5-car consist has broken doors, heaters don't work, etc.

MN Jim wrote:The cars need to have their braking systems changed out to be compatible with the EOH fleet. I want to say they have drum and EOH cars have disc brakes, but it could be the other way around, or some combination...I don't recall the details. But the work is costly and there's not enough money to do it. They can't run in the EOH fleet without having the work done.

Are you asserting that these cars cannot be lashed together to operate in a consist because of incompatible brakes? Or is MN looking to change out the brakes to "standardize" the fleet and only stock one set of parts at Harmon?

Nester

OK, this will teach me a lesson about the merits of keeping my mouth shut...anyone got a napkin to wipe the egg off with?

The WoH cars at Highbridge do NOT have incompatible braking systems. Not sure why I thought that, but I was wrong. The problem with the cars is the 480V HEP trainline system, which is pinned differently than the rest of the EoH fleet. Therefore, even if there was a desire to swap out an entire trainset, they would be dark and cold because the HEP cables can't be plugged into the EoH locomotives. Never mind the fact that they could only run in pull mode that way.

The conversion work can't be done by MNR forces (I don't know why, and really don't want to get into a discussion of the pros and cons of in-house work vs. contracting it out), so the cars will be shipped out to a contractor for retrofitting. While they're out, they'll be repainted (as needed), some of them will have their seats replaced, and other necessary work will be done to bring them up to snuff. I don't know the time frame for completion of the work.

So there you have it. Sorry for the misinformation.

Jim