• What would McCain as President mean for Amtrak?

  • Discussion related to Amtrak also known as the National Railroad Passenger Corp.
Discussion related to Amtrak also known as the National Railroad Passenger Corp.

Moderators: GirlOnTheTrain, mtuandrew, Tadman

  by Vincent
 
Low population density doesn't always work against rail transport. An example would be in Montana along the former Northern Pacific mainline that connects Billings-Helena-Missoula. There is an on-going debate about the merits of establishing a CRC-type daily train for the citizens of Montana who need an economical, all weather option for getting around in Montana. The density along that corridor is low and essential or important services are often dispersed in various locations, necessitating a long journey to get needed medical, legal or business services and many students travel long distances to get to universities. With the price of gas at $4.00/gallon, the cost of driving 75 miles to see a dentist becomes prohibitive and a rail option becomes more competitive. Also many of the EAS passengers are traveling on the government's dime to perform needed medical, legal or engineering jobs in remote communities that have no passenger rail connection to the rest of the USA.

  by abenm613
 
the problem isn't lack fo expensive, overnight services, it's the fact that it takes 9 hours to get to Pitt. It's 7h20m from Philly, yet under 6 by car. It's what, 12 or 14 hours to toronto? Speed is the primary problem, not overnight service, IMO.
Not everyone is willing to sit behind the wheel for six hours, especially with soaring gas prices. That's where trains come in. And, since time is important, overnight service with appropriate aminites would save this time for travelers. By the way, private companies do run overnight bus service between NYC and Toronto. Amtrak could do the same with trains, which are much more suitable for such travel.
shold the government subsidize my lifestyle? should I recieve vouchers to stay at the sheraton rather than the best western?
But this is not luxury. LD trains is something essential that other countires of similar size do have, and, yes, if they can afford subsidizing it with their taxes, so can and should we. $10 per year per taxpayer in exchange for a useful and strategically important transportation mode is not a major burden on your shoulders. If they were to fund cruises or expensive hotels, well, as long as these would become more affordable to general public, there would be nothing wrong with it either. But these types of services are oriented to a paying public who can afford it in such a way that it should pay for itself. Trains, on the other hand, are meant to be a public service, which does not necessarily have to be profitable or even self-sufficient. Premium classes, such as sleeping cars on the LDs or first class on Acela, are indeed meant for wealthy customers, and Amtrak has just enough of them to satisfy the demand. But coaches must be available at reasonable rates for most travelers. Even if it costs federal government some $1.4 billion per year, which is substantially less than what other modes receive.

As a side point, why do you think New York City keeps subsidizing the Staten Island Ferry if there are numerous express bus routes available from S.I. to Manhattan? And these $5 buses transport more daily commuters than this free ferry. But the city keeps subsidizing it and even reconstructed its terminal on the Manhattan side. Why? To me it's obvious: Staten Island Ferry is New York's landmark, as well as an affordable alternative for Staten Island residents who can't afford $5 express bus fare. You may say it's a waste of money for most New Yorkers (at least those who don't live on S.I.). But it's government's duty to provide public service for people who need it (even if it's not the majority of the population).

Same holds true for Amtrak's LD trains. Maybe it's an oustanding minority of people who rely on them. But the needs of this minority has to be somehow be addressed. Besides that, Amtrak trains are part of the national landscape, which is just another reason to preserve them.
By heavy taxation European governments are suppressing a demand that can't actually be met. In futuer it will be hard to provide that energy. If you can work a car with solar power (I doubt it) then by all means drive it.
It's not only about energy. It's also about congestion (i.e. a situation where a demand for a specific roadway exceeds its capacity). Trains of any type (long-distance, high-speed, commuter, etc.) are much more efficient than autos. And a single rail track is capable of carrying more people or goods than a signle highway lane. At least, as long as the capacity of that track allows for frequent train traffic.

  by RVRR 15
 
Low population density doesn't always work against rail transport
Indeed. If Sweden had the same attitude towards rail transportation as the USA, the X2000's service would not be so widespread. (Sweden has an average population density of 56 people per square mile. About 50 percent of endpoints for the X2 service are metro areas with populations well under the 100,000 mark.)

  by Suburban Station
 
abe, we'll have to disagree and leave it there. I think the overnight network may actually be more than we need, at least in the east. It isn't efficient, IMO, to subsidize expensive trains to for a small minority when that same dollar can move a lot of people (and moving lots of people/goods is where trains are most efficient AFAIK). As for Pitt or toronto, I'd rather spend that time in a car or bus and sleep in a hotel than take an ultra slow train. If the train ride were under 5 hours to Pitt, I'd not only take the train, I'd probably go more often.

Don't take this as an argument against small cities and trains...just against he need for proliferation of overnight trains simply because speeds are too slow to effectively travel by day.

  by mtuandrew
 
I think Amtrak needs to own its own skeletal system in the Eastern US before it will truly be successful. Not another NEC right now, just their own owned-and-dispatched non-electric single-track lines with sidings, befitting the fairly low number of trains that would use them. A good place to start would be Chicago - Cleveland, with connections from there through Pittsburgh and Albany to NYC. After that, a line or two towards the Southeast, both from Washington and from Chicago.

This won't happen under McCain, and is unlikely to happen during either Obama's or Clinton's watch. However, I think that as long as CSX and NS are investor-owned companies - and more power to those investors - they will never be fully welcoming to passenger rail service over their lines. For that matter, neither will any of the big 6 or 7, though BNSF and CP have been considerably friendlier.

  by John_Perkowski
 
Moderator's Note:

I think the point has been driven home. Thank you for your participation, this thread is closed.