What Should A SilverLiner VI Look Like?

Now that everyone has had a chance to look at the SLV's, what changes would you make for the next generation?

Go back to the familiar ribbed-style exterior.

scotty269 wrote:Go back to the familiar ribbed-style exterior.

I wonder is the ribbed stainless a Budd patent design, currently owned by Bombardier?

scotty269 wrote:Go back to the familiar ribbed-style exterior.

...and Silverliner II-style oval windows!!!

SubwayTim wrote:

scotty269 wrote:Go back to the familiar ribbed-style exterior.

...and Silverliner II-style oval windows!!!

And keep it in Pennsylvania Railroad and Reading Company Heritage by placing, "Pennsylvania" and "Reading Company" above the windows while still with SEPTA paint and logos on the ends of the cars.

insert YLVANIA here ...

I'm enough of a railfan to appreciate some kind of homage to the PRR and the Reading--maybe a keystone and diamond pattern in the seat upholstery.

The more serious things I'd like to see are rest rooms (one per three-car set), trash and recycling receptacles, at-seat power outlets, cup holders (VRE has them) and wi-fi. And 2-2 seating throughout, one inch wider than the 2-2 on the Silverliner Vs, which are in turn an inch wider than the IVs.

I like the end windows on the Vs: while they call it the "railfan window," they also increases visibility through the train, which is a benefit for security and when looking for a seat. Speaking of that, it should be easy to pass between cars, at least within a set. Power doors aren't as important as they are on intercity trains though.

I'd like to try passenger-controlled doors (see RiverLINE for example), but I'm not sure if they'll be effective on this system. With the doors opening right into the passenger compartment, you'll get cold or hot air coming in depending on the season when you make station stops. Since many of the lines have inner stops that are lightly used (e.g. 49th Street, Wayne Junction), comfort might be improved if the doors can stay closed if nobody is boarding or detraining.

And I'm probably in the minority on this, but I really like the firm, contoured seats on the RiverLINE cars more than I like the Silverliner seats. NJ Transit has done pretty well on passenger accommodations, considering the RiverLINE cars and the Multi-level cars.

How about a better paint scheme?

60 Car, please be specific about what you want to see that would make a paint scheme better.

With the elimination of end-vestibule doors, I would like to see articulated married pairs if it is possible and allowable by the FRA. I also think the doors would be a problem. I haven't ridden the RiverLINE, so I am not familiar with how those doors work. It will be interesting to see how the climate inside the car will be during extreme winter and summer months.

But really, the design will rely heavily on the FRA and the latest design fad. And, I also think it would be cool for SEPTA to have a survey for paint schemes (possibly a contest) and amenities (for instance, how popular would bathrooms REALLY be?), given the recent customer-oriented management.

Also, I vote for the ribbed exteriors as well. It makes the train look like a quick vehicle instead of a cheap steel box on metal wheels.

On the Riverline what SHOULD happen is the operator release the doors so that they open if a passenger has pressed the door open button. The idea, as mentioned earlier in this thread, is that we don't waste heat or air conditioning if there are no passengers boarding or alighting.

That doesn't mean operators don't override the release system and open doors anyway, I assume because they see passengers and guess they can save a second or so of platform dwell time.
I've seen it on other light rail lines, Newark, Hudson-Bergen, Baltimore, Buffalo, San Diego, Los Angeles, San Jose, Sacramento and Portland. Newark's the only place I've seen a legacy light rail line do it, I haven't seen it in San Francisco or Boston.
I haven't seen it on Toronto streetcars either, but the only railroad application I noticed was Toronto Go Transit. In fact I remember one announcement "We're putting the doors on standby to keep in the heat" once when I got on a train that was sitting at a terminal for a while.

The proof will be in the pudding, but if the Riverline is an example I don't think lack of vestibules will make internal climate control difficult. The Riveline's doors seem generously wide to me and the cars are generally toasty warm in winter and frigid cool in summer. I admit I don't know how expensive it is to maintain that environment with such wide doors, but I suppose having doors open only when there's passenger demand helps.

I realize this thread's about appearance, but what operational or structural benefit does a ribbed, or corrugated, exterior give vs flat sides?

gardendance wrote: The proof will be in the pudding, but if the Riverline is an example I don't think lack of vestibules will make internal climate control difficult. The Riveline's doors seem generously wide to me and the cars are generally toasty warm in winter and frigid cool in summer. I admit I don't know how expensive it is to maintain that environment with such wide doors, but I suppose having doors open only when there's passenger demand helps.

Given where the GTW 2/6 comes from, I'd imagine those cars have really good heat! A/C? Not so much. IIRC, one of the changes Austin had to theirs was Stadler had to REALLY upsize the a/c units. Europeans don't do air conditioning, for whatever reason. Even BMWs and Benzes tend too have...marginal... a/c.

I realize this thread's about appearance, but what operational or structural benefit does a ribbed, or corrugated, exterior give vs flat sides?

Structurally? Think a piece of cardboard vs paper. It's a LOT stronger, which is likely why Budd did it - really strong with very little weight penalty. Budd was the undisputed master of lightweight railcar design back then, they could get a stainless body down to aluminum body weights. The MP-85 / Pioneer III cars were under 90,000 lbs for an AC system MU. That's respectable even by today's standards.

As for the next Septa regionals? If the system was all high platform and it could be done, the more recent DB S-Bahn stuff isn't that bad, or if they're fixated on multi levels, the recent RER stuff is interesting - imagine 3 supermarket-width doors on each car. (!)

gardendance wrote:60 Car, please be specific about what you want to see that would make a paint scheme better.

For starters, decide where the stripe ought to be.
I think the low stripe, oh wait let's go high, nah never mind, go low stripe looks goofy.

Call me old and dull, but if it has to have a stripe, I think it should be below the windows and stay there, and be a single wide fade stripe similar to how the busses are done.
With the septa lettering on the letterboard area.

I personally prefer the full "Southeastern Transportation Authority" on the letterboard like the NHSL cars had that got repainted in the late 80's and early 90's.
Basically that paint job with natural stainless replacing the "white" (which was actually gray) and the wide fade style stripe.

SubwayTim wrote:

scotty269 wrote:Go back to the familiar ribbed-style exterior.

...and Silverliner II-style oval windows!!!

Aren't those windows now too small for FRA regulations?

I'll take the technical specs as given and focus on the customer aspects.

Here is my wish list:

1. Married pairs shall have a clear and open gangway for easy passage among cars while in motion. Heck, articulated cars would be fine. This is becoming common for trains overseas and can be seen on the Acela.

2. Big windows of course. Acela size would be preferred.

3. Four stream doors for rapid loading and unloading.

4. If we must have steps, then make them automatic folding steps and get rid of the manual traps. No steps = better.

5. Facing seats with a table. This would be a boon for families or groups. Reserve these ares for groups.

6. Wi-fi

7. Seating area with space for a child in a stroller for families to use.

8. Bike racks at the doors.

9. LED lighting that can be dimmed and is indirect. No more fluorescent interrogation room lighting.

10. Power outlets.

11. Restrooms.

12. "Rail fan seat" if possible, but if #14 happens, I would trade this for streamlining. Make the rear of the cab glass like the ICE to see out the front...

13. Actual livery not naked steel. Also, use colors with more pop as opposed the flat hues we currently have. Richer, deeper colors or else brighter. The train is a core part of SEPTA's brand image -- particularly among legislators and business leaders.

14. Front end "face" of the train must have a streamlined look which is important for marketing of the service.

15. Seat design that is actually beautiful not just utilitarian.

I like these DMUs, which I realize are not really commuter trains, but have some similarities:

http://www.vicsig.net/index.php?page=pa ... pe=VLocity