American Dream Opening and Expanded Meadowlands Rail Service

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trainbrain
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American Dream Opening and Expanded Meadowlands Rail Service

Post by trainbrain » Tue Jul 09, 2019 9:10 pm

So finally the American Dream complex is scheduled to open on a specific date, which is October 25th. I remember the original plan was to run Meadowlands Rail Service every day once it opened. Is this still planned? Will there be any additional service on the Meadowlands line because of the complex being open? Hopefully they'd at least run it every weekend.

njt/mnrrbuff
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Re: American Dream Opening and Expanded Meadowlands Rail Service

Post by njt/mnrrbuff » Wed Jul 10, 2019 6:24 am

Well, until all of the equipment and crew shortage issues get straightened out, it’s safe to assume that we won’t be getting daily service on the Meadowlands Spur. So many people will drive to the mall, especially those who live west of where the mall will be held. I hope that several bus routes can serve the mall too. I know that this isn’t a bus forum but I must mention that NJT will probably be doing a serious restructuring of its bus routes around there to serve the mall.

trainbrain
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Re: American Dream Opening and Expanded Meadowlands Rail Service

Post by trainbrain » Wed Jul 10, 2019 5:24 pm

I think it's possible the mall developer pays NJT to run the trains. Makes sense if it is going to bring in a lot more business to keep them running. Also, keep in mind they would need far less equipment to run trains for the mall than for Metlife events. Could easily get away with just two sets going between Hoboken and The Meadowlands every half hour or so. Only one set is needed if service is to Secaucus only (not practical to turn trains there on weekdays). I think the use 5 or 6 sets for Metlife events.

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Re: American Dream Opening and Expanded Meadowlands Rail Service

Post by CNJGeep » Wed Jul 10, 2019 6:24 pm

They can pay four billion dollars a minute, and it wouldn't matter one bit if there are no engineers to run the trains, or no equipment to make them up with.
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Roadgeek Adam
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Re: American Dream Opening and Expanded Meadowlands Rail Service

Post by Roadgeek Adam » Thu Jul 11, 2019 12:51 am

I could see service on October 25 for crush of people wanting to see it, but NJ is in no shape to make that line permanent with more important things to do.

There will be a lot of buses I'm sure
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EuroStar
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Re: American Dream Opening and Expanded Meadowlands Rail Service

Post by EuroStar » Thu Jul 11, 2019 8:01 am

More likely than not there will be at least one new bus route from the Port Authority to the American Dream. A big assumption behind all the money spend on the complex is that it will draw a heavy dose of city dwellers. There may or may not be a new bus route from Secaucus Station to the complex. For all that we know they might just decide to modify a few of the existing routes and add some frequencies. Opening day or even the opening weekend might see some rail service. As others have pointed out full day rail service is impossible with the current engineer shortage, but even when that is solved other challenges remain. For example, on the weekend you cannot get anything more frequent than a train an hour because for all practical purposes your connections between Secaucus and NYP run once an hour, so a New Yorker will see an hourly schedule regardless how frequently the trains run between the Meadowlands and Hoboken. Yes, some people might take the PATH to Hoboken, but most will prefer the more frequent direct bus from the Port Authority. The connecting schedule is less of an issue on weekdays, but the demand for going to the complex is likely to be lower on weekdays as the local population is at work. In my opinion unless the Secaucus Loop is built, there will be no frequent daily rail service as the ridership will not justify it.

njt/mnrrbuff
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Re: American Dream Opening and Expanded Meadowlands Rail Service

Post by njt/mnrrbuff » Thu Jul 11, 2019 11:32 am

The PABT is way above capacity so adding a new bus route just to serve the mall will probably be tough. I think we can think that the existing routes will see some more frequencies.

R36 Combine Coach
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Re: American Dream Opening and Expanded Meadowlands Rail Service

Post by R36 Combine Coach » Mon Jul 22, 2019 2:48 am

trainbrain wrote:
Wed Jul 10, 2019 5:24 pm
I think it's possible the mall developer pays NJT to run the trains. Makes sense if it is going to bring in a lot more business to keep them running.
IKEA Elizabeth for some years funded Academy to operate free weekend bus service between NY PABT and IKEA on 30 minute schedules. (IKEA cut service starting in 2015, now requiring visitors by bus to use the NJT 111 at regular fare).
njt/mnrrbuff wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2019 11:32 am
The PABT is way above capacity so adding a new bus route just to serve the mall will probably be tough. I think we can think that the existing routes will see some more frequencies.
NJT did so in 1999 when Jersey Gardens opened with the new 111 (mentioned above). Will American Dream rival Jersey Gardens or also Woodbury? (the latter has frequent express service on ShortLine)
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Re: American Dream Opening and Expanded Meadowlands Rail Service

Post by Hawaiitiki » Mon Jul 22, 2019 3:27 am

Phil Murphy should use his business acumen to get the mall to subsidize electrification to the Meadowlands from the junction outside the Bergen Tunnels as a trade-off for service.

It is a sin that electrification wasn't more seriously considered when that branch was built. The benefit having high capacity, quick acceleration vehicles servicing major events would make a world of difference on that nightmare experience that everyone traveling to the stadium by train experiences. Not to mention, it would allow NJT to use its entire fleet for major events.

Diesel traction can't and hasn't been able to keep up with the amount of people that use the Meadowlands branch during events, and it is stain on the region for all visitors and locals who have undoubtedly been stuck in the cattle line there. (or worse...stranded)
Double Track, Grade Separate, and Electrify America!

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GojiMet86
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Re: American Dream Opening and Expanded Meadowlands Rail Service

Post by GojiMet86 » Mon Jul 22, 2019 7:00 pm

Hawaiitiki wrote:
Mon Jul 22, 2019 3:27 am
Phil Murphy should use his business acumen to get the mall to subsidize electrification to the Meadowlands from the junction outside the Bergen Tunnels as a trade-off for service.

It is a sin that electrification wasn't more seriously considered when that branch was built. The benefit having high capacity, quick acceleration vehicles servicing major events would make a world of difference on that nightmare experience that everyone traveling to the stadium by train experiences. Not to mention, it would allow NJT to use its entire fleet for major events.

Diesel traction can't and hasn't been able to keep up with the amount of people that use the Meadowlands branch during events, and it is stain on the region for all visitors and locals who have undoubtedly been stuck in the cattle line there. (or worse...stranded)
Wait, the Meadowlands spur doesn't have electrification? I thought it was electric the whole. Weren't the electric trains from New Haven coming into the Meadowlands directly?

pumpers
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Re: American Dream Opening and Expanded Meadowlands Rail Service

Post by pumpers » Mon Jul 22, 2019 9:41 pm

You could go from CT thru NY Penn station to Seacaucus Junction station without changing, I believe. Basically the Amtrak route, ex. PRR west of NY Penn, but then you had to change to the ex Erie line (the Meadowlands spur, built perhaps 10 years ago, is off the Pascack Valley line, which itself branches off the Bergen county line). All those Erie lines were never electrified, IIRC.
PS. I edited some typos like heading west not east on the ex PRR.
Last edited by pumpers on Tue Jul 23, 2019 2:58 am, edited 4 times in total.

R36 Combine Coach
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Re: American Dream Opening and Expanded Meadowlands Rail Service

Post by R36 Combine Coach » Mon Jul 22, 2019 11:17 pm

pumpers wrote:
Mon Jul 22, 2019 9:41 pm
You could go from CT thru NY Penn station to Seacaucus Junction station without changing, I believe. Basically the Amtrak route, ex. PRR east of NY Penn. but then you had to change to the ex Erie line (the Meadowlans spur is off the Pascack Valley line) which itself branches off the Bergen county line. All those Erie lines were never electrified, IIRC.
Doable with an ALP45: use Midtown Direct (Kearny Conenction) onto the M&E, reverse east to West End, on wye and up the PVL.
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pumpers
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Re: American Dream Opening and Expanded Meadowlands Rail Service

Post by pumpers » Tue Jul 23, 2019 2:09 am

Good point R36. That would be a great fan trip, crossing the meadowlands (the swampy geographic region, not the stadium area) 3 ways. Not being sarcastic. Do you know of anything like that?

And to add to my earlier post, at Secaucus, technically you don,t first get directly on the ex Erie when you change trains. You get on the parallel ex- DLW Boonton Branch, which then immediately jogs over to the ex-Erie on a new connector put in when they built Secaucus Jct station,

Hawaiitiki
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Re: American Dream Opening and Expanded Meadowlands Rail Service

Post by Hawaiitiki » Tue Jul 23, 2019 8:53 am

pumpers wrote:
Mon Jul 22, 2019 9:41 pm
All those Erie lines were never electrified, IIRC.
Nope, but I'm quite sure there was a study/business case done in the late 80's/90's about electrifying Main and Bergen Lines, to the point where they had substations mapped out. We all know how that shook out...

Just brought electrification into this conversation because this new build in the urban core (no local emmissions) that requires high-capacity (higher acceleration) away from any NIMBYS seemed like the perfect candidate.
Double Track, Grade Separate, and Electrify America!

jamesinclair
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Re: American Dream Opening and Expanded Meadowlands Rail Service

Post by jamesinclair » Tue Jul 23, 2019 11:46 am

My bet for initial service:

More service on existing bus 160 to Meadowlands
Bus 161 and 163 rerouted for off-peak stops at mall (they pass by it now, could loop into the stop)
Bus 772 gets weekend service + evenings (currently terminates at Meadowlands on weekdays)

Existing Secaucus special event bus route 353 (which supplements trains) operates every weekday every 30 minutes

Existing Coach USA bus route from PABT to stadium increases service, specifically weekends and holidays. I believe the fact that this bus exists means NJT CANNOT compete with their own route to PABT

NJT creates new bus route from Newark Penn (daily service, all day, for employees)

I can see a private carrier (or jitney) operating a PATH connection at Journal Square

I would wager the only TRAIN service to start will be weekends and holidays, hourly from Hoboken via Secaucus.

NJT simply does not have the capacity at the moment to operate weekday trains.

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