ALP-45-DP Usage/Service Patterns

[baldwr]

Max power from diesel engine - 2828MW
With 6 MLs, average HEP consumption is about 300kw, sometimes higher sometimes lower, depending on temperature, if AC or heat is on, number of open cars, etc
Often shows "traction horsepower" of around 4050HP on average (it fluctuates).

Something does not add up... 1 HP = ~0.75 kW (0.7457 kW to be exact) . A 2828 kW Diesel Engine would only give you 3,771 HP. If you are averaging 4050 HP, that is 3037.5 kW - poor engine. Not questioning the HP you are averaging, but maybe the Max Power rating is a bit low?

[Don31]

Exhaust has already gone thru the combustion process, it can't burn a second time.....

Are you sure about that?

http://pro2am.rrpicturearchives.net/sho ... x?id=67023

Yes, I'm sure about that. Why do you ask?

[ns3010]

Hmm, that does make it more confusing. I would imagine that the HEP of 6 or 7 ML's would take more than 150 HP off the total, yet I would think that "traction horsepower" would only be for traction, as the name implies.

Of course, we wouldn't be wondering this if NJT were consistent in listing the HP ratings one way or the other. But that's apparently too much to ask

[25Hz]

When a turbocharger fails, the fuel to air mixture gets too rich and the exhaust gets un-burned fuel, which then can and usually ignites due to both sparking from the failed pieces and exhaust temperature. This causes a "dirty" burn, where as in the cylinders it is a "clean" burn, which you see as a big smoke show vs maybe some trace soot (depending on how healthy the diesel motor is of course).

I believe that on the inverter equipped locomotives, the on-board accessory power is fed by the HEP inverter(s). Traction inverters have big beefy leads that connect down to the traction motors. The current on those would be too different from what would be needed for the on-board systems. This is logical since the locomotive systems would be treated just like a car's systems. The big difference between diesel and electric is that diesel has to carry its own power, so the over-all output (insofar as pax locos) is markedly less than electric, as the electric power supply from a wire or rail is as much as the locomotive needs and all you need to carry around is possibly a transformer if AC power is involved.

With that in mind, the 45 in D mode with a fully open revenue consist is going to lessen the total available current to the traction system, so instead of the unused current going to traction it all gets siphoned off by HEP inverter. That base number is not one i'm sure about, but JT's 80% figure would make sense, so 20% goes to HEP and the remaining 80% gets sent to the traction inverters and divides that 80% by 4 and factor in heat and other losses..... So maybe 75 to 78 percent of remaining HP after HEP actually gets to the traction motors. That number is 18.75 percent per traction motor assuming 75% total.

Now all someone has to do is put in the HP numbers and figure out what percent is what HP and mystery solved.

[Jtgshu]

Max power from diesel engine - 2828MW
With 6 MLs, average HEP consumption is about 300kw, sometimes higher sometimes lower, depending on temperature, if AC or heat is on, number of open cars, etc
Often shows "traction horsepower" of around 4050HP on average (it fluctuates).

Something does not add up... 1 HP = ~0.75 kW (0.7457 kW to be exact) . A 2828 kW Diesel Engine would only give you 3,771 HP. If you are averaging 4050 HP, that is 3037.5 kW - poor engine. Not questioning the HP you are averaging, but maybe the Max Power rating is a bit low?

Yea, I meant to say kW not MW - wow that would crazy! ahhhaha

As for the actual HP, I have no idea, but the 2828kW is what it says as the diesel engine output, and thats equal across all PL42s. it also says that the load regulator is set to 100 percent, so its not showing them as having reduced power.

Of course, if you knew these locos like I do, I don't trust anything that they say or do.....so if the HP numbers dont' quite work out with the kW numbers, im not surprised. Im just happy to get from A to B, and while doing that, like to watch the numbers change hahahaha

[Fan Railer]

What is the traction HP when the ALP is supplying HEP? It is listed as having 4200 HP in diesel mode, but it is not clear if that is total or traction only.

The PL42's is listed as having 3620 HP, which is for traction only after the HEP draw. However, the P40's are listed as having 4250 HP, which is total before HEP draw. The differences between the P40 and PL42 listing are the cause for the confusion over which number the ALP's 4200 HP is quoted for.

Sorry if that's confusing, so basically what I'm asking is, do the ALP-45's have 4200 HP of traction, or is it somewhere around the upper/mid 3000's like the P40's and PL42's traction rating?

4200 is the total hp at the alternators. Spec sheets show that traction hp drops to 3600 hp and down to 3000 hp depending on HEP load.

[baldwr]

Yes.. @ 2828 MW (2.28GW) we would not need a bolt of lightning, plutonium or Mr. Fusion to make time travel possible with some generous (88%) overhead! Of course, the flux capacitor would still be needed.

[sixty-six]

Yes, 66, both pans are live at all times (as far as I know - must assume they are anyway) Its just that one is in contact with the wire, the other isn't. There is no chance of arc'ing with a '46 because the way to change pantographs is to raise the one that was down, so they are both up, once that one makes contact, the one that was up before and will be lowered, so there is actually no time when there isnt' a pantograph on the wire. a 45 only has one, so when that is lowered, contact with the wire is lost, and a chance for an arc happens. there are also special instructions about where a "Routine 6" - aka locomotive reset on an ALP can be done, as when that is done, ALL pantographs are lowered and removed from the wire (and the battery opened up, to make the loco completely dead for a little bit and then its livened back up) so there is also a risk for an Arc in some places when a routine 6 is done.

The MandE has (or had) signs all though the roseville cut that say "Low Clearance - Pantographs not to be lowered at this location" or something like that for this very reason. They were under the overhead bridges.

The signs you're thinking of say "LOW CATENARY CLEARANCE. TRACK STRUCTURE NOT TO BE RAISED AT THIS LOCATION"

[michaelk]

Just in case JT wasn't clear enough that the pan issue is arcing in Hoboken-

you and your diesel fumes, with engine running there would not be diesel fumes in fact exhaust has inert gas consistency.
as for tanks they are vented at track level.

Despite being relatively less flammable than regular gas engine exhaust, diesel exhaust is still flammable (http://safety.cat.com/cda/files/836622/ ... 1010.1.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;). And judging by the way these locomotives idle while providing HEP lends to the fact that there is still plenty of exhaust that would be in the general area of a potential low clearance arching event. So I'm not really sure what kind of point you're trying to make here.

First off it's diesel fuel vapor that can burn. Matter can generally be a solid, a liquid, or a gas (which we call a vapor if the substance is usually a liquid at room temperature). Fume is a word with a nebulous meaning that generally means there are vapors in the air that are "dangerous" or "unpleasant".

anywho- you need to have the right fuel/air mixture of anything to burn. Too much vapor and it's too rich and you choke out the fire (example being the trick of putting out a cigarette in a cup of gasoline- DO NOT TRY THIS AT HOME). Too little and without a catalyst you can't get a fire (that's why you have a catalytic converter in your car to burn the trace gasoline vapors- they wont born otherwise- it's just too lean). You can also muck with the pressure to change it somewhat.

The temperature where, in a steady system, a liquid will give off enough vapor to burn if you give it an ignition source is called the flash point. It's the temperature of the LIQUID that matters. Basically when the liquid is warm enough it will evaporate off enough vapor to get enough in the air to burn. Gasoline as an example has a flash point of MINUS 45 Fahrenheit- that's why you can run a gasoline engine in alaska or pretty much anywhere on the planet. It's always giving off enough vapor to burn. Diesel fuel on the other hand has to be heated to someplace generally north of 140 degrees in order for it to give off enough vapor to burn (depending on the blend can be as low as maybe 120 or as high as 200- winter blends a shot of kerosene so they don't gel, etc.). So it's not generally possible to get diesel fuel vapors to burn in NJ unless you take a torch to the fuel tank or do something like that long enough to heat the piss out of the fuel so that it's way above any temperature that we might experience.

Not gonna happen.

And all that again is a 'steady system' - toss in a breeze to disperse the vapors and it's that much harder. That's why even though gasoline will give off enough vapors above -45 that you don't generally explode fueling your car even though you make sparks galore from your cell phone, static from getting in or out of the car, dropping your keys on the pavement, people smoking just out side the convenience store 10 feet away, etc, etc. Under the perfect conditions you can get 'normal temperature' gasoline to ignite/explode outdoors just search you tube for fueling mishaps, but you just cant do that with diesel.

Diesel vapors are not a significant concern.

[nick11a]

The other day while running on the Morris County Traction Line at Convent Station, saw 4509 (on the west end) with a string of Comet Vs with a PL42AC on the east end running in revenue service. 4509 was in Diesel Mode (and made a fair amount of noise it seemed to me.)

[25Hz]

Yes.. @ 2828 MW (2.28GW) we would not need a bolt of lightning, plutonium or Mr. Fusion to make time travel possible with some generous (88%) overhead! Of course, the flux capacitor would still be needed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1AtE54HpXBM" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Jtgshu]

Yes, 66, both pans are live at all times (as far as I know - must assume they are anyway) Its just that one is in contact with the wire, the other isn't. There is no chance of arc'ing with a '46 because the way to change pantographs is to raise the one that was down, so they are both up, once that one makes contact, the one that was up before and will be lowered, so there is actually no time when there isnt' a pantograph on the wire. a 45 only has one, so when that is lowered, contact with the wire is lost, and a chance for an arc happens. there are also special instructions about where a "Routine 6" - aka locomotive reset on an ALP can be done, as when that is done, ALL pantographs are lowered and removed from the wire (and the battery opened up, to make the loco completely dead for a little bit and then its livened back up) so there is also a risk for an Arc in some places when a routine 6 is done.

The MandE has (or had) signs all though the roseville cut that say "Low Clearance - Pantographs not to be lowered at this location" or something like that for this very reason. They were under the overhead bridges.

The signs you're thinking of say "LOW CATENARY CLEARANCE. TRACK STRUCTURE NOT TO BE RAISED AT THIS LOCATION"

Oh, well I was totally off.....kinda sorta........hahha

[sixty-six]

Yes, 66, both pans are live at all times (as far as I know - must assume they are anyway) Its just that one is in contact with the wire, the other isn't. There is no chance of arc'ing with a '46 because the way to change pantographs is to raise the one that was down, so they are both up, once that one makes contact, the one that was up before and will be lowered, so there is actually no time when there isnt' a pantograph on the wire. a 45 only has one, so when that is lowered, contact with the wire is lost, and a chance for an arc happens. there are also special instructions about where a "Routine 6" - aka locomotive reset on an ALP can be done, as when that is done, ALL pantographs are lowered and removed from the wire (and the battery opened up, to make the loco completely dead for a little bit and then its livened back up) so there is also a risk for an Arc in some places when a routine 6 is done.

The MandE has (or had) signs all though the roseville cut that say "Low Clearance - Pantographs not to be lowered at this location" or something like that for this very reason. They were under the overhead bridges.

The signs you're thinking of say "LOW CATENARY CLEARANCE. TRACK STRUCTURE NOT TO BE RAISED AT THIS LOCATION"

Oh, well I was totally off.....kinda sorta........hahha

Let the Hoboken Divison guys worry about Hoboken...hahaha

[Jtgshu]

Let the Hoboken Divison guys worry about Hoboken...hahaha

Lets just keep the Hoboken guys on the hoboken side, I know the cool thing these days is to work and qualify the Newark side, but............

[ACeInTheHole]

Saw #4531 for the first time on train #808 this morning... It was in E-mode to boot. Get your shots of the F40s now fellas, thats at least three of the damaged 45s back up and running. Anyone else catch any flood damaged units returned to service?