One-Seat Ride to NYC on Raritan Valley Line

[srock1028]

What's the point of running the dual modes into Penn, but not out of Penn? Seems like they will need to run a bunch of DM X trains from NYP-NWK to shuffle equipment. I'm guessing it has to do with Amtrak slots, but on the surface seems contradictory

They are running out of Penn. Once they arrive Union, they will transfer to a bus.

Sorry but that is not the plan.

Eastbound: Train Raritan to Cranford, Bus to Union, Union direct to New York because the RVL shuttle train between Union and Newark would miss NEC and NJCL hourly connections into New York.
Westbound: Passengers transfer in Newark (like the norm) board a train to Union, bus to Cranford, train to Raritan.

[ThirdRail7]

What's the point of running the dual modes into Penn, but not out of Penn? Seems like they will need to run a bunch of DM X trains from NYP-NWK to shuffle equipment. I'm guessing it has to do with Amtrak slots, but on the surface seems contradictory

They are running out of Penn. Once they arrive Union, they will transfer to a bus.

Sorry but that is not the plan.

Eastbound: Train Raritan to Cranford, Bus to Union, Union direct to New York because the RVL shuttle train between Union and Newark would miss NEC and NJCL hourly connections into New York.
Westbound: Passengers transfer in Newark (like the norm) board a train to Union, bus to Cranford, train to Raritan.

Hmmm. I'm not sure I believe you. Usually -"NO BS" follows your informational posts and it is conspicuously absent this time. Is this some sort of Easter joke on your part?

[srock1028]

What's the point of running the dual modes into Penn, but not out of Penn? Seems like they will need to run a bunch of DM X trains from NYP-NWK to shuffle equipment. I'm guessing it has to do with Amtrak slots, but on the surface seems contradictory

They are running out of Penn. Once they arrive Union, they will transfer to a bus.

Sorry but that is not the plan.

Eastbound: Train Raritan to Cranford, Bus to Union, Union direct to New York because the RVL shuttle train between Union and Newark would miss NEC and NJCL hourly connections into New York.
Westbound: Passengers transfer in Newark (like the norm) board a train to Union, bus to Cranford, train to Raritan.

Hmmm. I'm not sure I believe you. Usually -"NO BS" follows your informational posts and it is conspicuously absent this time. Is this some sort of Easter joke on your part?

My above post is -NO BS! haha

[CentralValleyRail]

What's the point of running the dual modes into Penn, but not out of Penn? Seems like they will need to run a bunch of DM X trains from NYP-NWK to shuffle equipment. I'm guessing it has to do with Amtrak slots, but on the surface seems contradictory

They are running out of Penn. Once they arrive Union, they will transfer to a bus.

Sorry but that is not the plan.

Eastbound: Train Raritan to Cranford, Bus to Union, Union direct to New York because the RVL shuttle train between Union and Newark would miss NEC and NJCL hourly connections into New York.
Westbound: Passengers transfer in Newark (like the norm) board a train to Union, bus to Cranford, train to Raritan.

Hmmm. I'm not sure I believe you. Usually -"NO BS" follows your informational posts and it is conspicuously absent this time. Is this some sort of Easter joke on your part?

My above post is -NO BS! haha

So the answer is they WILL be deadheading the DM's from NYP back to NWK?

[ryanov]

I guess it would require more equipment to have them running that shuttle in both directions on a normal-ish schedule?

[ThirdRail7]

What's the point of running the dual modes into Penn, but not out of Penn? Seems like they will need to run a bunch of DM X trains from NYP-NWK to shuffle equipment. I'm guessing it has to do with Amtrak slots, but on the surface seems contradictory

They are running out of Penn. Once they arrive Union, they will transfer to a bus.

Sorry but that is not the plan.

Eastbound: Train Raritan to Cranford, Bus to Union, Union direct to New York because the RVL shuttle train between Union and Newark would miss NEC and NJCL hourly connections into New York.
Westbound: Passengers transfer in Newark (like the norm) board a train to Union, bus to Cranford, train to Raritan.

Hmmm. I'm not sure I believe you. Usually -"NO BS" follows your informational posts and it is conspicuously absent this time. Is this some sort of Easter joke on your part?

My above post is -NO BS! haha

So the answer is they WILL be deadheading the DM's from NYP back to NWK?

Based upon this post and the previous post by Srock, it certainly seems that way.

Isn't this kind of a strange plan? Think about it. You board a train in NYP and transfer to another train at NWK. Then, you take that train one stop to Union, disembark and board a bus. Next, you get off the bus at Cranford and get on another train.

We should name this the Four-Seat to NYC on Raritan Valley Line thread!

I wonder how much time it would kill if you just transferred to a bus at NWK and rode that to Cranford.

[Push&Pull Master]

I guess it's the only chance for a Union station commuter to get a one seat inbound ride into NYP on a weekend. It does seem strange that NJT wouldn't make the outbound deadhead a revenue shuttle to the shuttle bus at Union. It would make things a tad less frustrating. However, this all makes me wonder if NJT will ever run weekend RVL service into NYP.

[25Hz]

I guess it's the only chance for a Union station commuter to get a one seat inbound ride into NYP on a weekend. It does seem strange that NJT wouldn't make the outbound deadhead a revenue shuttle to the shuttle bus at Union. It would make things a tad less frustrating. However, this all makes me wonder if NJT will ever run weekend RVL service into NYP.

As they take one tunnel out each weekend to keep them operationally sound, i kinda doubt it. From what i understand, taking one tunnel out actually decreases capacity by something like 60%, not half as you would expect. I think this is due to the 4 track line on one side only being connected to the 20 track station by a single track, combined with the speeds in the tunnel, and separation requirements between trains. Just my theory...

[lirr42]

As they take one tunnel out each weekend to keep them operationally sound, i kinda doubt it. From what i understand, taking one tunnel out actually decreases capacity by something like 60%, not half as you would expect. I think this is due to the 4 track line on one side only being connected to the 20 track station by a single track, combined with the speeds in the tunnel, and separation requirements between trains. Just my theory...

It's a 2 track line on one side and a 21 track station on the other, though for all intents and purposes it's a 17 track station.

When you single-track, all eastbound trains have to come out before the first westbound can go in, and that time you spend at BERGEN or A waiting for the tunnel to empty out is what leads to the less than half-capacity conundrum you see.

[Push&Pull Master]

I guess it's the only chance for a Union station commuter to get a one seat inbound ride into NYP on a weekend. It does seem strange that NJT wouldn't make the outbound deadhead a revenue shuttle to the shuttle bus at Union. It would make things a tad less frustrating. However, this all makes me wonder if NJT will ever run weekend RVL service into NYP.

As they take one tunnel out each weekend to keep them operationally sound, i kinda doubt it. From what i understand, taking one tunnel out actually decreases capacity by something like 60%, not half as you would expect. I think this is due to the 4 track line on one side only being connected to the 20 track station by a single track, combined with the speeds in the tunnel, and separation requirements between trains. Just my theory...

That's what I thought. From the NJT statements I've read over the last year or two, the next phase is late-night NYP service, and then maybe weekend RVL weekend service if there is away to take away a NEC (the NJT route) slot without messing up transfers at Newark and SEC. I know that peak service is impossible, because taking a slot away from NEC/NJCL means less capacity for transfers at Newark/SEC because ALP 45s can't pull more than about 6 or 7 MLVs while ALP 46s pull about 10 MLVs on the NEC.

[MattW]

I know this is related a bit more to Gateway rather than the Raritan line specifically, but since the topic of tunnel capacity was broached, and my question is I hope rather simple, I hope it can remain here.
If Gateway was built with one tunnel instead of two, for three tubes under the Hudson, how would that affect weekend single-track-closures? Would that even reduce the cost enough while still bringing enough benefit to be worthwhile?

[Adirondacker]

I know this is related a bit more to Gateway rather than the Raritan line specifically, but since the topic of tunnel capacity was broached, and my question is I hope rather simple, I hope it can remain here.
If Gateway was built with one tunnel instead of two, for three tubes under the Hudson, how would that affect weekend single-track-closures? Would that even reduce the cost enough while still bringing enough benefit to be worthwhile?

No. The trains don't evaporate when the get to New York. They have to go someplace.

[lirr42]

No. The trains don't evaporate when the get to New York. They have to go someplace.

Yeah, out the second tunnel.

When you would close off one of the three tunnels, you would be able to sustain regular bi-directional movements in and out of the two remaining tunnels, so there would be a noticeable increase in capacity over today's one tunnel (plus you would save even more time since you would not have to wait for all of the eastbound trains to come out before sending westbounds in, like we mentioned above).

[Amtrak7]

That's what I thought. From the NJT statements I've read over the last year or two, the next phase is late-night NYP service, and then maybe weekend RVL weekend service if there is away to take away a NEC (the NJT route) slot without messing up transfers at Newark and SEC. I know that peak service is impossible, because taking a slot away from NEC/NJCL means less capacity for transfers at Newark/SEC because ALP 45s can't pull more than about 6 or 7 MLVs while ALP 46s pull about 10 MLVs on the NEC.

The ALP's can handle 10 cars in both modes, though it isn't too easy in D.

As a first step, direct service can be initiated during the hours when the NEC only has one train per hour a direction.
Since the 2 Trenton tph run on uneven headways, how is the loading distribution? Similar on both? Really packed on the first and not so much on the second?

[srock1028]

What's the point of running the dual modes into Penn, but not out of Penn? Seems like they will need to run a bunch of DM X trains from NYP-NWK to shuffle equipment. I'm guessing it has to do with Amtrak slots, but on the surface seems contradictory

They are running out of Penn. Once they arrive Union, they will transfer to a bus.

Sorry but that is not the plan.

Eastbound: Train Raritan to Cranford, Bus to Union, Union direct to New York because the RVL shuttle train between Union and Newark would miss NEC and NJCL hourly connections into New York.
Westbound: Passengers transfer in Newark (like the norm) board a train to Union, bus to Cranford, train to Raritan.

Hmmm. I'm not sure I believe you. Usually -"NO BS" follows your informational posts and it is conspicuously absent this time. Is this some sort of Easter joke on your part?

My above post is -NO BS! haha

So the answer is they WILL be deadheading the DM's from NYP back to NWK?

Roger, yes they will be. -NO BS