One-Seat Ride to NYC on Raritan Valley Line

[ACeInTheHole]

Am I the only one of the opinion that they should fix the damaged dual modes before even thinking of offering this type of service?

[EuroStar]

I have a question for the "insiders": Now that the Raritan Valley line will be getting off-peak service into NYP, how likely is it that they will somehow muscle in peak service in a few years? Is there anything short of new tubes that NJT can do to accomplish this (such as redirecting trains from the Coast line or the Midtown Direct service to Hoboken, or more possibly more capital intensive, such as quad tracking Secaucus-Newark)?

The issue I see is that if Raritan gets direct peak service into NYP, the incentive to build new tubes goes down and the Bergen County Lines might get forgotten forever -- certainly they do not seem to have similarly strong advocates on their side.

Fair Disclosure: I will be living in Bergen County soon.

[alewifebp]

I think that incentive increases dramatically to build new tubes. Give them a taste, and they'll be craving it, and so will everyone else once wind of this starts to spread. What would be the ultimate testament to the success of this pilot program is if RVL passengers purposely move their work schedules around and make the off peak service a tremendous success.

[Ken W2KB]

I think that incentive increases dramatically to build new tubes. Give them a taste, and they'll be craving it, and so will everyone else once wind of this starts to spread. What would be the ultimate testament to the success of this pilot program is if RVL passengers purposely move their work schedules around and make the off peak service a tremendous success.

If the same off peak definition is used as noted in the timetable for quiet commute cars, few would be willing to move to a 4:46 a.m. departure from Raritan or the earliest return arriving Raritan at 9:10 p.m. On the other hand, I've noted the concern and confusion of facial expression of first time riders going to NY when the crew member hands back the ticket and says you need to change at Newark, usually to Track 1. For those in that category, probably going to NY for other than work reasons, the off peak direct service would be a plus for sure.

[Amtrak7]

Does NJT have a couple extra slots during the peak period that aren't in the "peak of the peak"? (i.e. arriving before 7:30a or after 9a, departing before 5pm or after 6:30pm) If so, dual modes can go here.

Using LIRR as an example, of the 5 westbound and 4 eastbound dual modes that were shoehorned into the rush hour, only 1 roundtrip was in the peak of the peak (8am and 5pm hours)

[Passaic River Rat]

[edited for content]

[ACeInTheHole]

Dont mean tobe rude Passaic but you got the wrong thread for that post buddy.

[michaelk]

Am I the only one of the opinion that they should fix the damaged dual modes before even thinking of offering this type of service?

one of the newspaper articles says it won't happen till the spring. Presumably things will be 'more back to normal' and 'repaired' by then.

[michaelk]

While it is nice that NJT will be offering one seat rides, the times offered provide no value to commuters on the RVL. Unless there is a way to provide at least 2 trains in the morning and 2 in the evening this is nothing but a stunt to keep folks quiet. ...

I dont know i'd say "stunt" but otherwise yes it's a way to keep people quiet and show some progress. There's not much else they can do during 'the peak' for a variety of reasons all posted here in various threads.

... I wonder what would happen if one train on the NJCL was terminated at Newark Penn and one on the M & E was sent on to Hoboken. Would the slots into New York then be open or would the outcry be so great that the folks who live along the RVL would just have to continue to have degraded service levels?

I'd love to see it as I live closest to the RVL- but there would be a giant angry outcry with no way to fix it except give the slots back to the others and stealing all the joy from us RVL. Pissing us off that much more as we 'almost' had it that 'one time'....

They might do it though if it required just a few extra votes in the legislature or something. Piss off whomever enough so they abuse their local pols enough to change a vote here or there. Alls fair in love & war AND politics.

[necrails]

Perhaps stunt is too strong a word but off peak trains to Penn will not help anyone. Progress? I guess you could spin it that way because it is something offered that has not been available prior to now, but the real issue is to help the commuters get to work. Off peak trains do not serve that purpose. No company is going to change their workers hours because the trains do not run at the appropriate times. RVL riders will be the last to arrive at the party simply because they are the last invited. And any additional tunnels or platform space at Penn is more that a decade away after the plans finalized and funding is secured.

[ThirdRail7]

Progress? I guess you could spin it that way because it is something offered that has not been available prior to now, but the real issue is to help the commuters get to work. Off peak trains do not serve that purpose. No company is going to change their workers hours because the trains do not run at the appropriate times. RVL riders will be the last to arrive at the party simply because they are the last invited. And any additional tunnels or platform space at Penn is more that a decade away after the plans finalized and funding is secured.

I'm curious as to how many of the offended and whiny Raritan Valley line passengers would lobby and fight the NIMBYism that would result if NJT electrified the line from High Bridge to CP Aldene. The reality of the situation is that is what would truly help the cause. When the Raritan Valley Line trains are in the position to have longer trains because they are equipped with stronger, electric locomotives and can ferry equipment for connecting passengers, then they can throw barbs. They are not because the line is not electrified.

So, how many one seat whiners are REALLY interested in the solution? How many will agree to electric poles surrounding the line? How many politicians in the towns that are passing ludicrous resolutions are ready to commit to electrification of the line? How many commuters would lobby their politicians for a quicker and most likely better long term solution?

The upper Coast Line passengers put their money where their mouths are years ago. If everyone on the line is serious, the line could be electrified quicker than building a new tunnel.

[Jtgshu]

But NJT just spent a bazillion dollars on Dual Mode locomotives! That means they dont' need to run any new wire anywhere ever again! HAHAHAHAH (as a loco runs into Hoboken in diesel mode after changing at Broad St Newark.....)

[michaelk]

Progress? I guess you could spin it that way because it is something offered that has not been available prior to now, but the real issue is to help the commuters get to work. Off peak trains do not serve that purpose. No company is going to change their workers hours because the trains do not run at the appropriate times. RVL riders will be the last to arrive at the party simply because they are the last invited. And any additional tunnels or platform space at Penn is more that a decade away after the plans finalized and funding is secured.

I'm curious as to how many of the offended and whiny Raritan Valley line passengers would lobby and fight the NIMBYism that would result if NJT electrified the line from High Bridge to CP Aldene. The reality of the situation is that is what would truly help the cause. When the Raritan Valley Line trains are in the position to have longer trains because they are equipped with stronger, electric locomotives and can ferry equipment for connecting passengers, then they can throw barbs. They are not because the line is not electrified.

So, how many one seat whiners are REALLY interested in the solution? How many will agree to electric poles surrounding the line? How many politicians in the towns that are passing ludicrous resolutions are ready to commit to electrification of the line? How many commuters would lobby their politicians for a quicker and most likely better long term solution?

The upper Coast Line passengers put their money where their mouths are years ago. If everyone on the line is serious, the line could be electrified quicker than building a new tunnel.

Not sure where anyone said the problem is "becasue the line is not electrified" - there's dual modes now so that's basically moot.

past Raritan the line is decidedly "rural" and people there would likely have a beef. And likely more because of the development it would bring not the bad views, they dont want any development period in many of those places.

The rest of the way along the old CNJ is pretty "industrial"- the factories along the way would generally hide any electric plant built if it was the version like Matawan to Long Branch on the NJCL. There's a little bit residential on the lehigh line in roselle park area but then it's industrial again. I dont think that the NIMBy's are the problem to electrify from Raritan to Newark. It's the bajilions it would cost. And that was the problem all along until midtown direct. Now the issue with electrification is money and there's no slots anyway.

Changing trains blows. And the lack of expresses also blows. Seems the new trains will help on both counts. Some people understand that the situation is what it is and are happy with a tiny little incremental gain. No reason to piss in the wheaties.

[ThirdRail7]

Not sure where anyone said the problem is "becasue the line is not electrified" - there's dual modes now so that's basically moot.

Nothing could be further from the truth. We went over this like a school play. This is not some imagined limitation. According to some higher ups, it is very real. In diesel mode, the Alp-45 would have a difficult time maintaining the schedule it if carried around the necessary equipment it need to replace an existing slot. They aren't comparable to the electrics, which can.

If you electrify the NJT owned portion of the Raritan Valley line, that problem is largely eliminated since you'd only have to use diesel mode for a small portion of the trip. If you wanted to get creative, you could have the trains programmed to operate wit ha DM skip Union station so you wouldn't have to worry about the slow acceleration in diesel mode.

Dual modes don't negate much because at the end of the day, outside of electrified territory...it's just another diesel. The demise of the Alp-44s was accelerated by its lack of ability to adequately power a large train of MLVs. While the Alp-45 has a much bigger HEP output than the ALP-44s, it doesn't have the horsepower rating of one, particularly in diesel mode. Imagine the DM with 10 MLVs coming down from Lebanon on a fall morning.

Ouch.

[ACeInTheHole]

The 45s from what Ive seen arent too much slower accelerationwise than a 46 pushing 8 MLs in diesel mode. They definitely have got grunt ThirdRail... I wouldnt be so quick to discredit them.