Penn Station, Madness and Train Boarding

[Steampowered]

On Saturday penn station njt was packed , i mean it was miraculous a riot didnt break out. Why doesnt NJT make it so people can hop on the train eariler like 20m ? This would reduce people sitting on stairs,and the near mayhem conditions ? Instead everyone crowded on to 1 NEC trenton train, then 15 min later another one was announced. If they annouced the boarding times around the same time, people could have had 2 train to go on, thus making things orderly. I would rather sit on the train , rather then deal with an unruly crowd in the waiting area.

[srock1028]

Why doesnt NJT make it so people can hop on the train eariler like 20m ? This would reduce people sitting on stairs,and the near mayhem conditions ? Instead everyone crowded on to 1 NEC trenton train, then 15 min later another one was announced. If they annouced the boarding times around the same time, people could have had 2 train to go on, thus making things orderly.

Trains on the weekend do not sit in the station, thus they can not be announced 20 minutes before departure. Also, trains might not have been announced at the same time because they were'nt in the station at the same time. Some turn off the road, some come from the yard and the tracks are not decided until right before entering the station.

[SwingMan]

There'd be even more mayhem when said train get moved from track 15 to track 5.

[Patrick Boylan]

yep, some pretty valid points. As mentioned above, not every train is at the platform 20 minutes before departure, and some trains that are at the platform can get their destinations changed.

Another difficulty I imagine could be that at some point of mobness it might be difficult to tell for sure how much of a given crowd is destined for a particular train. If 200 people line up at a stairway, and another 200 line up at the next stairway, chances are they intend to head onto whatever train ther stairway's signs advertise. If there are 1000 people then the crowds waiting for different stairways might mingle. Can the powers that be know that it's 500 for each train? What if it's 800 for 1 train and 200 for the other?

What I find more frustrating is the countup timer, that is departure board says "on time" until the scheduled time, then says "5 min late", and increments another 5 min every 5 minutes. Admittedly I haven't seen that behavior for a while, but then I haven't ridden commuter railroad much for many years.

[kilroy]

Not to mention one train is going to Trenton and one down the shore. Rahway and east can take either train but if you're going west of Rahway you don't have a choice.

[lirr42]

Like others said, often times they do not know what train is going where until 5 minutes before. With three railroads, hundreds or trains, and a bunch of other inevitable nonsense that goes on in that mess of steel and wire that is New York Penn.

And if we call the train early and send them down to an empty platform with no train, the pandemonium, pushing and shoving that goes on upstairs is now happening on the platform—this time with trains and third rails and all like that.

Also, NYP might be a bit crowded lately with Hoboken and PATH not quite up to speed. Perhaps people who would hop onto PATH over to Hoboken to catch the train now have to go out of NYP because of no real way to get there. With PATH running to HOB now, it might get better.

[Tadman]

I find this a typical occurence at legacy stations in large cities. Those stations were not designed to handle the intense volumes of commuters seen at today's rush hours. They were designed to handle something like a 50/50 mix of high density commuters at rush hour and low-density coach and sleeper passengers throughout the day.

You'll find the more modern purpose-designed commuter stations do an incredibly efficient job of funneling commuters off the street and straight to their trains. Specifically, Chicago's LaSalle and Northwestern (Ogilvie) stations. Both were heavily rebuilt in the early 1980's after Amtrak/CNW/RI left and only commuter trains were left. You go in, you go up broad steps or multiple escalators to a broad concourse, and you choose your track. I rarely see people loitering. Most people have monthly passes so only 5-10% of passengers visit the ticket window.

Frankly, stations like NYP and CUS are the worst - not only are they not designed as commuter stations despite their high volume of commuters, they aren't even designed as train stations. They are a commercial/sporting venue with a forgotten trains station underneath, leading to a mish-mash labyrinth of corridors and inefficient waiting rooms. This was done under PRR/PC management when money was tight and passengers didn't matter. It's a reality we're stuck with.

[lirr42]

NYP does a remarkable job of handling 300,000 people a day (over 100 million a year--which is more people than the busiest airport in the world). While it may not be the prettiest and most architecturally amazing station in the world, it does its job, and it does it well considering the circumstances.

And it does it with 21 tracks too. Grand Central has 67 tracks and half the people, Chicago Union Station has 24 tracks but handles 1/30th of the people.

[Defiant]

Frankly, stations like NYP and CUS are the worst - not only are they not designed as commuter stations despite their high volume of commuters, they aren't even designed as train stations. They are a commercial/sporting venue with a forgotten trains station underneath, leading to a mish-mash labyrinth of corridors and inefficient waiting rooms. This was done under PRR/PC management when money was tight and passengers didn't matter. It's a reality we're stuck with.

I would rather say that we, as in this city and country, chose to be stuck with this reality. Most modern Western countries and industrialized Asian countries do not have such a claustrophobic, crowded, hot and ugly train station. Penn station is essentially the “Central” station of NYC with trains going to other states and cities. In my opinion, it is a disgrace that it is such a crowded, hot, ugly place that people dread

[BigDell]

But really it's only an issue during rush hours. I'm amazed at how much more "civilized" Penn Stn NY is at say 10AM or 11pm (except after a Garden event). The horrid hours are rush hour. Particularly that 5:30-6:30 slot. Wow. It's absolutely awful. I always inwardly chuckle at the people running for the platform when the track is announced. They won't miss the train. And if you go at announcement time you're 95% guaranteed to get a seat. I saunter.

So.....whatever happened to the grand plans of turning the post office across the street into the new Penn Stn? The Daniel Patrick Moynihan station? According to this: http://www.moynihanstation.org/newsite/ ... eline.html
work should be well underway?

[SwingMan]

I laugh when people cram into the first four cars (or the cars right by the stairs), and the rest of the train is empty. T

[25Hz]

On Saturday penn station njt was packed , i mean it was miraculous a riot didnt break out. Why doesnt NJT make it so people can hop on the train eariler like 20m ? This would reduce people sitting on stairs,and the near mayhem conditions ? Instead everyone crowded on to 1 NEC trenton train, then 15 min later another one was announced. If they annouced the boarding times around the same time, people could have had 2 train to go on, thus making things orderly. I would rather sit on the train , rather then deal with an unruly crowd in the waiting area.

This is how the station is every day.

For years i traveled between trenton and new york 1-4 times a week, and for a few months i even used LIRR when i lived in nassau county. It's always a madhouse, and gets worse around the holidays. Today and tomorrow are traditionally the busiest 2 days due to xmas around the corner.

[bleet]

Work on the Moynihan station has allegedly begun but only on the extension of the West End concourse which is really of very little use in my opinion since it only connects to the LIRR side of the station. And truly the entire project isn't going to do much to eliminate the madness since it'll only be used by Amtrak passengers for the most part. On the other hand if NJT can make use of the space vacated by Amtrak to essentially mirror the layout of the LIRR side, the station would be much easier to use...but no one is proposing that as far as I know.

[25Hz]

Work on the Moynihan station has allegedly begun but only on the extension of the West End concourse which is really of very little use in my opinion since it only connects to the LIRR side of the station. And truly the entire project isn't going to do much to eliminate the madness since it'll only be used by Amtrak passengers for the most part. On the other hand if NJT can make use of the space vacated by Amtrak to essentially mirror the layout of the LIRR side, the station would be much easier to use...but no one is proposing that as far as I know.

Only phase 1 has been funded. I have a feeling that phase 2 will not be.

[JamesRR]

Work on the Moynihan station has allegedly begun but only on the extension of the West End concourse which is really of very little use in my opinion since it only connects to the LIRR side of the station. And truly the entire project isn't going to do much to eliminate the madness since it'll only be used by Amtrak passengers for the most part. On the other hand if NJT can make use of the space vacated by Amtrak to essentially mirror the layout of the LIRR side, the station would be much easier to use...but no one is proposing that as far as I know.

The current West End Concourse only serves LIRR tracks. The goal of the extension is to serve tracks below 13, so theoretically, NJT riders could use it to gain access to the 8th Ave Subway (and exits there) without going through Penn Station proper.