Metro to study congestion improvements for BL/OR/SV

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YOLO
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Metro to study congestion improvements for BL/OR/SV

Post by YOLO » Mon Jun 17, 2019 4:04 pm

https://www.wmata.com/initiatives/plans/BOS-Study.cfm

The Georgetown tunnel could pop up as a recommendation, also interesting to note that one of the graphics seem to suggest possibly running more than 26 trains per hour thru DC (even though they refuse to do so ATM)

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Sand Box John
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Re: Metro to study congestion improvements for BL/OR/SV

Post by Sand Box John » Mon Jun 17, 2019 8:19 pm

"YOLO"
The Georgetown tunnel could pop up as a recommendation, also interesting to note that one of the graphics seem to suggest possibly running more than 26 trains per hour thru DC (even though they refuse to do so ATM)


It also proves what I have been saying for more then 25 years. WMATA has had a rolling stock shortage sense the extension of the Yellow line to Huntington on 12 17 1983.
John in the sand box of Maryland's eastern shore.

danib62
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Re: Metro to study congestion improvements for BL/OR/SV

Post by danib62 » Tue Jun 25, 2019 8:15 am

In my opinion anything short of another east/west tunnel through the district really isn't going to accomplish anything
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Re: Metro to study congestion improvements for BL/OR/SV

Post by gprimr1 » Mon Jul 01, 2019 1:58 pm

A new tunnel for the Cross Town Express Service.

Trains in the tunnel will stop at Rosslyn, Metro Center, Le'Fante Plaza, and Stadium Armory. Orange/Silver/Blue trains will make all local stops on the East and West sides of the boundary stations and operate express in the tunnel. Ideally, a future phase two would extend a third track to Dulles Airport for an Airport Flyer service.

The existing tunnel would be used for a cross town local service.
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TheOneKEA
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Re: Metro to study congestion improvements for BL/OR/SV

Post by TheOneKEA » Tue Jul 16, 2019 6:17 pm

danib62 wrote:
Tue Jun 25, 2019 8:15 am
In my opinion anything short of another east/west tunnel through the district really isn't going to accomplish anything
Agreed. Sand Box John’s map of the M Street Subway, shown with the extension to D&G Junction, is my preference for expanding the system. Anything else isn’t likely to make a big enough difference for the enormous cost that any improvement capable of moving the needle would incur.

Alternatively, a commitment to build more 7000-series trains and actually use them to the maximum extent allowed by the signaling would work too.

YOLO
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Re: Metro to study congestion improvements for BL/OR/SV

Post by YOLO » Thu Dec 05, 2019 4:36 pm

Metro has posted 6 concept ideas that they are planning:

https://www.wmata.com/initiatives/plans ... in-content

Some of them are pretty interesting, e.g. new Blue line to Tenleytown OR Northeast DC - Silver Line going across MD and upper NW, Silver Line going south to Columbia Pike

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Sand Box John
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Re: Metro to study congestion improvements for BL/OR/SV

Post by Sand Box John » Fri Dec 06, 2019 3:38 pm

YOLO
Metro has posted 6 concept ideas that they are planning:

https://www.wmata.com/initiatives/plans ... in-content

Some of them are pretty interesting, e.g. new Blue line to Tenleytown OR Northeast DC - Silver Line going across MD and upper NW, Silver Line going south to Columbia Pike


I have seen this show before. All of the "pretty interesting" ones are variations of ideas others proposed back in the 1990s on USENET during the early stages of the studies that would evolve into what is now the Purple and Silver lines.

I am not going to bore you with my rolling stock shortage argument that I have been making for more then 25 years.
John in the sand box of Maryland's eastern shore.

TheOneKEA
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Re: Metro to study congestion improvements for BL/OR/SV

Post by TheOneKEA » Thu Dec 19, 2019 9:36 pm

Sand Box John wrote:
Fri Dec 06, 2019 3:38 pm
YOLO
Metro has posted 6 concept ideas that they are planning:

https://www.wmata.com/initiatives/plans ... in-content

Some of them are pretty interesting, e.g. new Blue line to Tenleytown OR Northeast DC - Silver Line going across MD and upper NW, Silver Line going south to Columbia Pike


I have seen this show before. All of the "pretty interesting" ones are variations of ideas others proposed back in the 1990s on USENET during the early stages of the studies that would evolve into what is now the Purple and Silver lines.

I am not going to bore you with my rolling stock shortage argument that I have been making for more then 25 years.
Even if the rolling stock shortage was taken care of, I still think dwell times will be hugely affected by the requirement that the driver move over to the offside window to operate the doors. It adds at least 16-20 seconds to each stop, especially since so many of the stops are at stations with island platforms.

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Sand Box John
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Re: Metro to study congestion improvements for BL/OR/SV

Post by Sand Box John » Fri Dec 20, 2019 2:15 pm

TheOneKEA
Even if the rolling stock shortage was taken care of, I still think dwell times will be hugely affected by the requirement that the driver move over to the offside window to operate the doors. It adds at least 16-20 seconds to each stop, especially since so many of the stops are at stations with island platforms.


The dwell time issue would be partly addressed by reducing the number of passengers boarding or discharging because of the greater number of trains. A return to automatic operation and door opening would eliminating the delay between the stopping of the train and door openings. The programed dwell time will leave ample time for the operator to move from the operators seat to the left window to close the doors. WMATA could take it a step further and do what SEPTA has done an install cameras to allow operators to see down the platform on a display from the operators seat.
John in the sand box of Maryland's eastern shore.

ExCon90
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Re: Metro to study congestion improvements for BL/OR/SV

Post by ExCon90 » Fri Dec 20, 2019 3:41 pm

In Hamburg the S-Bahn equipment had a portable control stand connected to the real one by a thick cable. When the platform was on the left the operator would carry it with him to the left-hand window; when ready to leave he closed the doors and started the train, observed the platform as the train pulled out, then returned to his accustomed place and resumed operating the train with the fixed controls. (The S-Bahn had no problem with providing clear glass between the cab and the passenger compartment.)

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Sand Box John
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Re: Metro to study congestion improvements for BL/OR/SV

Post by Sand Box John » Fri Dec 20, 2019 5:21 pm

ExCon90
In Hamburg the S-Bahn equipment had a portable control stand connected to the real one by a thick cable. When the platform was on the left the operator would carry it with him to the left-hand window; when ready to leave he closed the doors and started the train, observed the platform as the train pulled out, then returned to his accustomed place and resumed operating the train with the fixed controls. (The S-Bahn had no problem with providing clear glass between the cab and the passenger compartment.)


Such a feature is unnecessary when operating in automatic mode as the train will proceed out of the station after the trains protection system has confirmed that all doors are closed. There is no dead man feature or start button to push after closing the doors when operating in automatic mode.
John in the sand box of Maryland's eastern shore.

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STrRedWolf
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Re: Metro to study congestion improvements for BL/OR/SV

Post by STrRedWolf » Fri Dec 20, 2019 8:38 pm

YOLO wrote:
Thu Dec 05, 2019 4:36 pm
Metro has posted 6 concept ideas that they are planning:

https://www.wmata.com/initiatives/plans ... in-content

Some of them are pretty interesting, e.g. new Blue line to Tenleytown OR Northeast DC - Silver Line going across MD and upper NW, Silver Line going south to Columbia Pike
Looking through the options... it looks like the best bet is to build "Rossyln II" for the Blue Line to get that capacity back, and then route around for a northern loop to Union and down to the green line.
"The last and final stop is BALTIMORE PENN STATION." I can has MARC V?

TheOneKEA
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Re: Metro to study congestion improvements for BL/OR/SV

Post by TheOneKEA » Mon Dec 30, 2019 5:12 pm

STrRedWolf wrote:
Fri Dec 20, 2019 8:38 pm
YOLO wrote:
Thu Dec 05, 2019 4:36 pm
Metro has posted 6 concept ideas that they are planning:

https://www.wmata.com/initiatives/plans ... in-content

Some of them are pretty interesting, e.g. new Blue line to Tenleytown OR Northeast DC - Silver Line going across MD and upper NW, Silver Line going south to Columbia Pike
Looking through the options... it looks like the best bet is to build "Rossyln II" for the Blue Line to get that capacity back, and then route around for a northern loop to Union and down to the green line.
Agreed. Another east-west route across the District and a second line for Union Station is the best way to improve the system, in my opinion. If the M Street route terminated at Union Station but has provisions to be extended, that’s fine too.

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Re: Metro to study congestion improvements for BL/OR/SV

Post by Arlington » Fri Jan 10, 2020 10:15 pm

I like Concept 3: New Blue Line, but I'd like to build both branches
https://www.wmata.com/initiatives/plans ... e-Line.pdf

OPTION B:
The cool/subversive thing about sending BL up to Tenleytown is that you'd create much better MD-VA routings, vastly improving NW/MD's access to National Airport and Tysons and free up space in the current OR/SV tunnel

OPTION A
The "M Street" corridor seems to cry out for more service:
BOS Rosslyn II
Georgetown
West End
RED Dupont
Thomas-Scott
G&Y MtVSq-Convention
RED Union Station
7th St NE (H St Central)
14th St NE (H St East)
19th St NE (Benning Rd)

OPTION A & PG COUNTY (intensify service on the branches)
(join the Orange Line at Benning Rd)
Minnesota Avenue
Deanwood

...turn north via Tuxedo-Bladensburg for
- out to GREEN at College Park
- out to PURPLE at Riverdale or Beacon Heights
... simply follow ORANGE out to Largo
"Trying to solve congestion by making roadways wider is like trying to solve obesity by buying bigger pants."--Charles Marohn

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Sand Box John
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Re: Metro to study congestion improvements for BL/OR/SV

Post by Sand Box John » Sat Jan 11, 2020 2:27 pm

[i][b]Arlington[/b]
OPTION A & PG COUNTY (intensify service on the branches)
(join the Orange Line at Benning Rd)
Minnesota Avenue
Deanwood[/i]

Sure you can connect the M Street subway into D&G Junction to reroute the Blue line and or to provide redundancy. Increasing service in to Prince George's County is unnessary as the stations on that side of Washington generate a fraction of the boarding compared to the west ends of the Orange and Blue lines.
John in the sand box of Maryland's eastern shore.

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