gp16s

[mike]

Growing up in west-central Ohio, I've watched numerous RJ Corman gp16s creep along its western ohio line. My question is this: where does a gp16 come from? I don't believe a gp 16 doesn't start out as a gp16. If this is indeed the case, what engine is rebuilt into a gp16? This question has often puzzled me. Thanks for any info.

[SRS125]

Illinois Central, Rock Island and sevral outher railroads were big into rebuilding of locomotives here is a small list of the populer models that were built:

Old Model/New Rebuilt Model 4 Axle.
GP-7------->GP-5 model built by GN only a couple were built and lasted into Burlington Northern.
GP-7------->GP-8 IC/ICG/and RI Rebuilds
GP-9------->GP-10 IC/ICG
GP-9------->GP-11 IC/ICG
GP-9------->GP-20 Milw rebuilds
GP-7------->GP-16 SBD Rebuilds many built for the U.S. Army
GP-9------->GP-16 SBD Rebuilds many built for the U.S. Army
GP-30-----> GP-39's BN Rebuilds

Deturbochaged Locomotives 6 Axle:
Old Model/New Model
SD-24----->SD-20 ICG Rebuild
SD-7 & 9's->SD-10's MILW Rebuilds
SD-24------>SD-26 ATSF Rebuilds
SD24/SD35->SD-20 ICG Rebuilds
SD35-------->SD20-2 B&O Rebuilds

I'm sure there are outher off models out there as well I my self would be intrested to here what outher odd ball locos are out there too.

[scottychaos]

Conrail also did a major early-GP rebuilding program..
turning GP7's into GP8's
and GP9's into GP10's..


http://crcyc.railfan.net/locos/emd/gp10/gp10rost.html

http://crcyc.railfan.net/locos/emd/gp8/gp8proto.html


here is a RJ Corman roster, which says the GP16's came from CSX.
http://www.thedieselshop.us/Corman.HTML

knowing that, further searching leads here,
the CSX GP16's came from Clinchfield and Seaboard Coast Line (mostly)
http://www.trainweb.org/csxphotos/html/GP16.html

and! with that information, futher googling leads here!
the Seaboard Coast Line GP16 rebuilding program.
(I love google!
http://www.trainweb.org/indianashortlin ... rogram.htm

so this is likely where the RJ Corman GP16's came from..
if you have specific numbers, the units entire history could probably be traced..
Scot

[SRS125]

The Conrail GP8's and 10's were built under contract from Illinos Central and Rock Island Railroads. I rember reading about in a book that I have on Conrail. Many of these units were former Erie/DL&W units with a small hand full comeing from PC/PRR, PC/NYC Haritage.

[Typewriters]

I have a few shots of rebuilt and unrebuilt CR Geeps on my site. Looking at references here, I show that Conrail itself rebuilt 25 units, both of type GP-7 and GP-9, at Altoona. Precision National rebuilt 35 units in 1976. In 1979, Precision National rebuilt 40 more units, split between Paducah Illinois and Mount Vernon, Illinois. I believe that Morrison-Knudsen did further units as well, from the spotty notes I have here, but don't know how many.

Do I remember correctly that the "GP-5" tag was applied to GP-9 units which were built with FT components and were thus rated 1350 HP? Somehow I seem to recall that, although this is again NOT an original model but one applied either later, or by railfans.

As a further note, I remember clearly at the time these units were plentiful on Conrail that you really did have to look at the model painted under the road number to discern a rebuilt/redesignated unit. Application of paper air filters did NOT necessarily indicate rebuilding, and there were actually many original units running around unrebuilt but mixed freely with rebuilds. Sure, the chop-nose units stuck out, but we didn't see those around here. Everything was high-nose. And some of the rebuilds actually still had dynamic brakes.

-Will Davis

[SRS125]

vary intresting Will,
I'll have to make a note on that one these GP-7's and 9's did these units have any overhalls or some sort of lite upgrade to them??

How about the GP20's that were deturboed by PC and CR but keeped there orignal GP20 tag.

[ACLfan]

The GP16 locomotive is unique to the Seaboard Coast Line RR and its successors (Seaboard System and CSX), as the SCL recycled most of its remaining GP7, 9 and 18 units into GP16 units. SCL hyped the GP16 units as speedsters, and assigned them to a new expedited perishable train service (the "Orange Blossom Special") that SCL had just instituted, and hired Johnny Cash to do some PR spots and photos for the new service.

The GP16 units were built, for the most part, by SCL shop forces, with a few x-Clinchfield units being rebuilt by ICG's Paducah Shops. They are the GP16 units with the "yoke" type air filters. On the SCL, the GP16 units were final assembled at SCL's Tampa (FL) Shops (the former ACL's Uceta Shops), with major parts coming from other SCL shops, most notably the former ACL shops at Waycross, GA.

After using them for a rather short time, CSX decided to retire all of the remaining GP16 units. Because most were still in good running condition, and with some good years left in them, CSX had no problem selling them off to shortline operators (like RJ Corman) and the U.S. Army. Consequently, a lot of former CSX GP16 units are still in operation today, but not on CSX.

To my knowledge, no GP16 units were ever transferred or sold to Conrail, or any other major railroad.

ACLfan

[Typewriters]

I imagine that some of the units still carrying GP-7 or GP-9 identification might have been thoroughly overhauled, maybe even given a rewiring; never knew for sure. But you also did see units that had external changes (like a box on the roof for paper engine air filters) that still retained their original designation. (The Lehigh Valley GP-18 units come to mind here.) I will say one thing, though, is that the units which still had their original model numbers seemed to be in the worst shape.

This isn't to say that some of the GP-7's might not have been fitted with 567BC engines; somebody with inside info or better references to GP's on Conrail might be able to tell you.

I believe all of the deturbocharged GP-20 units were actually done by Penn Central. They retained their original designation. Again, on some other railroad, these might have been given some other new designation -- like GP20R or GP20E -- but not on PC/Conrail. For rebuilt, modified units, the door's pretty much wide open on what they were referred to by the rebuilder and by the railroad once finished.

-Will Davis

[crazy_nip]

SCL hyped the GP16 units as speedsters, and assigned them to a new expedited perishable train service (the "Orange Blossom Special") that SCL had just instituted

they may have hyped them as speedsters, but they certainly werent...

they were meant for branch line service and locals

they flooded florida and georgia secondaries for years, but really not on the hotshot trains

for the most part the B36-7's and GP40-2's handled the hot trains like the juice trains and the pigs

one of the shortcomings of the gp16's were their lack of dynamic brakes, small fuel tank (1500 gallons) and the relatively low horsepower (1600) didnt make them very suitable for mainline service.

and to answer the question the original 16-567 and 16-567BC prime movers were used, apparently with 645 power assemblies

[missthealcos]

weren't the GN GP5's factory built by EMD with FT components, resulting in the 1350HP rating? They were also built late, and appear as late model GP9's

[Typewriters]

weren't the GN GP5's factory built by EMD with FT components, resulting in the 1350HP rating? They were also built late, and appear as late model GP9's


I said that on Wednesday; page EMD-56 of Kalmbach Books' "The Second Diesel Spotter's Guide" lists GN 900-915 as being GP-9M units, rated 1350 HP due to inclusion of FT components. (It also says that this same model was applied to two other units rebuilt from GP-7s following a wreck.)

-Will Davis

[ACLfan]

crazy_nip

You are absolutely right about the 99.9% role of SCL - CSX's GP16 units.

I never understood the reason for the initial PR hyping of the GP16 units as speedsters, although when called upon, they could definitely get out of town in a hurry! It seemed like a genuine "use" struggle existed among the "head shed" types over just what the GP16's should be used for.

As for me, I'm a Johnny Cash fan, so I enjoyed the PR hype since it had "The Man" singing the "Orange Blossom Special" again! The front cover of his album containing the "OBS" that was recorded way back when had him reclining on the roof of a SAL boxcar with the "OBS" logo on the side. Definitely COOL! The GP16 and "OBS" expedited perishable service PR had him standing on the front porch of a Seaboard System GP16.

But, as you correctly observed, the GP16's regular domain was the secondary trains and the network of secondary lines and yard duties, jobs that they could have performed for much longer than CSX decided to let them before retiring them off to a very popular "third life" as units on small railroads and the military (U.S. Army) railroads.

P.S. Better start picking your running mate for '08! Time's awasting!

ACLfan

[wesnerj]

Mike:

The July/August 1994 issue of Diesel Era magazine, has a very detailed article on the GP16 locomotive. Indiana Railroad has a number of GP16 locomotives, they are now replacing them with GP38 locomotives. Indiana Railroad operates the former Illinois Central line from Indianapolis, IN to Newton, IL. The company I work for bought GP16 #1728 from INRD in 1997, for use at the delayed coking unit in the refinery.
John

[mike]

Thanks wesnerj. I'll check that issue out.