Pan Am GE DASH 8 Locomotives

Guilford Rail System changed its name to Pan Am Railways in 2006. Discussion relating to the current operations of the Boston & Maine, the Maine Central, and the Springfield Terminal railroads (as well as the Delaware & Hudson while it was under Guilford control until 1988). Official site can be found here: PANAMRAILWAYS.COM.

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MEC407
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Re: PAR Locomotive Fleet - General Discussion

Post by MEC407 »

Someone (can't remember if it was on this site or elsewhere) said that LTE was going to be painting them before shipping them to PAR, but it doesn't look like that's happening. My guess is that it'll play out the same way as the 600s: they'll arrive, they'll be given new numbers, they'll be put into service, and they'll slow take turns in the paint shop.

Do we know yet whether PAR purchased these or is leasing them from someone? I know they're traveling with GECX reporting marks but that doesn't mean anything. GE sold its leasing business to Wells Fargo; GE retained the GECX reporting mark which they use for test locos, demo locos, locos-in-transit, etc.

Nerdy trivia:

• These will be the first 16-cylinder GEs owned/leased by this railroad since the U25Bs/U33Bs/U30Cs were scrapped in the late '80s

• These will be the first GEs owned/leased by this railroad with more than 3300 HP

• These will be the first locomotives owned/leased by this railroad with more than 3600 HP

• These will be the first locomotives owned/leased by this railroad to be built in the 1980s

• These will be the longest locomotives ever owned/leased by this railroad — 70 ft 8 inches

• These will have the most tractive effort of any locomotives ever owned/leased by this railroad — over 100,000 LBs continuous
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KSmitty
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Re: PAR Locomotive Fleet - General Discussion

Post by KSmitty »

MEC407 wrote:Someone (can't remember if it was on this site or elsewhere) said that LTE was going to be painting them before shipping them to PAR, but it doesn't look like that's happening. My guess is that it'll play out the same way as the 600s: they'll arrive, they'll be given new numbers, they'll be put into service, and they'll slow take turns in the paint shop.
They were supposed to be here by now, and we were supposed to see 1 or 2 painted in 2016 at Waterville. Apparently, at least several of them are hot targets for paint. Of course we'll see if that plan changes once they arrive and wind up in service. They might have a hard time pulling them from service for paint when the paint is pretty good on all shipped so far...
MEC407 wrote:Do we know yet whether PAR purchased these or is leasing them from someone? I know they're traveling with GECX reporting marks but that doesn't mean anything. GE sold its leasing business to Wells Fargo; GE retained the GECX reporting mark which they use for test locos, demo locos, locos-in-transit, etc.
Heard both, sorta interesting that Wells Fargo would deal with Pan Am. When Wells Fargo (First Union Rail/FURX) purchased HELM, the HLCX SD40-2's dissappeared mighty fast, supposedly because ST/PAR and Wells Fargo/FURX couldn't get along.

MEC407 wrote:Nerdy trivia:
• These will be the first locomotives owned/leased by this railroad to be built in the 1980s
Ooh, flag on the play, HLCX 8145, built as BN 8145 and HLCX 8147, built as BN 8147 show a build dates of 7/1980. http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/locopi ... x?id=74578" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; Assuming RRPA is correct, the 1980 threshold has already been broken. Granted not in as grandiose a manner as this, but "first" is not technically correct. And if we're going to be nerdy, "technically" is all that matters... :wink:

Z31SPL
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Re: PAR Locomotive Fleet - General Discussion

Post by Z31SPL »

This going to be a nice injection of some much needed power, as long as they can take care of it.

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MEC407
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Re: PAR Locomotive Fleet - General Discussion

Post by MEC407 »

KSmitty wrote:
MEC407 wrote:Nerdy trivia:
• These will be the first locomotives owned/leased by this railroad to be built in the 1980s
Ooh, flag on the play, HLCX 8145, built as BN 8145 and HLCX 8147, built as BN 8147 show a build dates of 7/1980. http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/locopi ... x?id=74578" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; Assuming RRPA is correct, the 1980 threshold has already been broken. Granted not in as grandiose a manner as this, but "first" is not technically correct. And if we're going to be nerdy, "technically" is all that matters... :wink:
Thank you for catching that! I knew in the back of my mind that there had been at least one 1980 or 1981 locomotive at some point, but when I went to RRPA to check, I couldn't seem to find it, and then I started second-guessing my own memory. Good catch. Hopefully the GEs will stay around longer than those two Helms.
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Re: PAR Locomotive Fleet - General Discussion

Post by MEC407 »

Also... can I take credit for this, since I've been saying for years that PAR should get over their irrational anti-GE stance and get some big boy locos up in this place? :wink:
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Re: PAR Locomotive Fleet - General Discussion

Post by gokeefe »

MEC407 wrote:Also... can I take credit for this, since I've been saying for years that PAR should get over their irrational anti-GE stance and get some big boy locos up in this place? :wink:
Go for it!

Reliable information indicates that about 30 units currently owned by PAR will be retired/sold/disposed as a result of these new acquisitions.

This is an efficiency move at its core.
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Re: PAR Locomotive Fleet - General Discussion

Post by MEC407 »

Makes perfect sense. It is indeed very inefficient to operate road freights with five GP40s that only barely make nominal power when the same train could be handled by three Dash 8s.

Hopefully this means that the oldest and most ragged of the 300s will be going away. The 500s probably still have another 10 years left in them.

Added bonus: GE traction motors and electrical systems are much more robust and reliable than pre-Dash 2 EMD.
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Re: PAR Locomotive Fleet - General Discussion

Post by newpylong »

gokeefe wrote:
MEC407 wrote:Also... can I take credit for this, since I've been saying for years that PAR should get over their irrational anti-GE stance and get some big boy locos up in this place? :wink:
Go for it!

Reliable information indicates that about 30 units currently owned by PAR will be retired/sold/disposed as a result of these new acquisitions.

This is an efficiency move at its core.
Sounds like "foamer intelligence." Some may not be repaired but nothing will be actively retired until the wheels stop moving. This is still Pan Am.

Brian4449
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Re: PAR Locomotive Fleet - General Discussion

Post by Brian4449 »

MEC407 wrote:Makes perfect sense. It is indeed very inefficient to operate road freights with five GP40s that only barely make nominal power when the same train could be handled by three Dash 8s.

Hopefully this means that the oldest and most ragged of the 300s will be going away. The 500s probably still have another 10 years left in them.

Added bonus: GE traction motors and electrical systems are much more robust and reliable than pre-Dash 2 EMD.
I highly doubt it, they will probably go to paduka to get rebuilt, pan am needs the GP40's for the light branch lines that 6 axles cant handle.

I also think they should "Lease or Buy" perfectly running and refurbished GP38-2's, GP15-1's, and GP35's for branch lines and yard jobs,(If there are no more GP40's or GP40-2's up for sale).

KSmitty
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Re: PAR Locomotive Fleet - General Discussion

Post by KSmitty »

Brian4449 wrote:I highly doubt it, they will probably go to paduka to get rebuilt, pan am needs the GP40's for the light branch lines that 6 axles cant handle.

I also think they should "Lease or Buy" perfectly running and refurbished GP38-2's, GP15-1's, and GP35's for branch lines and yard jobs,(If there are no more GP40's or GP40-2's up for sale).
There are very few of these branches remaining, and they have more territory they can use 6 axles and choose not too. They certainly have enough 4 axle power that they shouldn't have to go out and buy more of it. Neverminding the fact they have stubbornly eliminated all but the few "show pieces" from the roster which are non-turbo.

For the branches 4 axles make sense since they tread lighter, but for yard jobs you'll find an SD40-2 is going to perform better than a GP15, 38-2 or 35. Most larger railroads have the older 6 axle units in the yard because tractive effort, not horsepower is what you need in the yard. They simply need their 6 axles on the road and don't have enough to spare for yard jobs. If anything they should be buying more SD40-2's to put on yard jobs and move their fleet of 4 axles to strictly the branches and industrial tracks.
newpylong wrote:Sounds like "foamer intelligence." Some may not be repaired but nothing will be actively retired until the wheels stop moving. This is still Pan Am.
I've heard they are hoping to lay up some power, but I'm kinda skeptical they will be able to. If they really want to run POSE/SEPO with their own power, and play a bigger part in the Enola-Deerfield Pool those 20-25 units are gonna disappear quickly on those new locomotive assignments. Whats left may bump a few into storage, but they run power short constantly, so will likely just cover some holes...And if they really hope to grow the intermodal traffic they are gonna need more power. I keep hearing they want to be running 12000' of water out of Maine/day, sooner or later and if they can make that service work, they could likely market a third train to the paper mills/WalMart, etc...2-3 new train starts is going to draw quite a few locomotives, so any brief storage of locomotive's won't last long and in a years time they will be power short and looking for more leasers again.

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EDFLD Bill
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Re: PAR Locomotive Fleet - General Discussion

Post by EDFLD Bill »

MEC407 wrote:Do we know yet whether PAR purchased these or is leasing them from someone?
The units are being leased from GE with the option to buy at end of lease.
EDFLD Bill

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Re: PAR Locomotive Fleet - General Discussion

Post by GP40MC1118 »

GECX 9000-9005 on the move on Q331-23 at Lordstown, Ohio

GECX 9008-9014, 9016-9021 & 9023 all waybill reported same location

D

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Re: PAR Locomotive Fleet - General Discussion

Post by MEC407 »

Brian4449 wrote:I highly doubt it, they will probably go to paduka to get rebuilt, pan am needs the GP40's for the light branch lines that 6 axles cant handle.


They have close to 60 4-axle locomotives on the roster right now (in various states of [dis]repair). They no longer have enough branchlines or enough branchline traffic to justify keeping that many of them cobbled together with bailing wire and duct tape, especially now that some of them are 50 years old. By bringing 24 Dash 8-40Cs onto the railroad, they can afford to shed a few of the oldest and most hopeless GP40s.
Brian4449 wrote:I also think they should "Lease or Buy" perfectly running and refurbished GP38-2's, GP15-1's, and GP35's for branch lines and yard jobs,(If there are no more GP40's or GP40-2's up for sale).
This is what they've been doing. I think(?) they've still got a GATX GP15 working out of Waterville, and they've got a GATX mother/slug set at East Deerfield. I've heard (unconfirmed) that they'd like to lease another similar slug set.

Rebuilt GP38-2s are very expensive to lease or buy. Very expensive. They could easily take some of their own GP40s and rebuild them into GP38-2s, but they choose not to. Doing so would not be cheap, but it would be less costly than buying or leasing one from someone else.
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Re: PAR Locomotive Fleet - General Discussion

Post by 690 »

Except right now they're so power short they can't afford to really mothball any of the GP40s. And there's still plenty of trackage for them to run exclusively with four axles.

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Re: PAR Locomotive Fleet - General Discussion

Post by MEC407 »

690 wrote:Except right now they're so power short they can't afford to really mothball any of the GP40s.
How many of them are currently out of service?
690 wrote: And there's still plenty of trackage for them to run exclusively with four axles.
I'm still seeing plenty of GP40s on mainline freights in District 2, which is inefficient and not a good use of resources. When the Dash 8s get here, those GP40s can/should spend a lot more time in those exclusively-four-axle areas, which would allow the dead/OOS GP40s to be cannibalized for parts to keep the better ones going. Keep in mind, from a tractive effort standpoint, a Dash 8-40C can do the work of two GP40s. For every Dash 8-40C they put on the head end of a District 2 freight, two GP40s can be used elsewhere.
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