PAR GP40-2Ws (MEC 500 Series)

Guilford Rail System changed its name to Pan Am Railways in 2006. Discussion relating to the current operations of the Boston & Maine, the Maine Central, and the Springfield Terminal railroads (as well as the Delaware & Hudson while it was under Guilford control until 1988). Official site can be found here: PANAMRAILWAYS.COM.

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MEC407
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Re: PAR GP40-2Ws (MEC 500 Series)

Post by MEC407 » Wed Jul 02, 2014 1:04 pm

guilfordrailfan wrote:
MEC407 wrote:I do believe this is the first time in the history of the company that they've done that.
Not the first, but it's been a VERY long time. When Guilford bought the D&H in January 1984, the D&H 7600 GP39-2's were beat to s#!t even though they were some of the newest locomotives on the roster. So, Guilford decided to have them rebuilt in-kind by Morrison-Knudsen and they came back later in 1984 as B&M 350-369. That, to the best of my knowledge, is only other time Guilford / Pan Am sent locomotives out for contract maintenance. Also, if you count painting, Guilford contracted the painting of MEC 500-519 prior to their delivery in 2000-2001 since Waterville paint shop was closed at the time. However, no maintenance work was done on them - painting only.
Thanks Bill. You're absolutely correct, although I had been under the impression that those D&H GP39-2s were leased, and wondered if it was the lessor who specified where to have them rebuilt. Do you happen to know if that's the case?

The 500s were initially painted into Guilford colors by Ebenezer Railcar Services of West Seneca, New York.
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Re: PAR GP40-2Ws (MEC 500 Series)

Post by guilfordrailfan » Wed Jul 02, 2014 1:30 pm

MEC407 wrote:Thanks Bill. You're absolutely correct, although I had been under the impression that those D&H GP39-2s were leased, and wondered if it was the lessor who specified where to have them rebuilt. Do you happen to know if that's the case?
I'm not sure about the leasing aspect. There may be more to the story of rebuilding both the B&M 350's and the MEC 500's.

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Re: PAR GP40-2Ws (MEC 500 Series)

Post by gokeefe » Fri Jul 11, 2014 10:42 pm

guilfordrailfan wrote:
MEC407 wrote:I do believe this is the first time in the history of the company that they've done that.
Not the first, but it's been a VERY long time. When Guilford bought the D&H in January 1984, the D&H 7600 GP39-2's were beat to s#!t even though they were some of the newest locomotives on the roster. So, Guilford decided to have them rebuilt in-kind by Morrison-Knudsen and they came back later in 1984 as B&M 350-369. That, to the best of my knowledge, is only other time Guilford / Pan Am sent locomotives out for contract maintenance. Also, if you count painting, Guilford contracted the painting of MEC 500-519 prior to their delivery in 2000-2001 since Waterville paint shop was closed at the time. However, no maintenance work was done on them - painting only.
Ok...so this actually is relatively earth shattering or at least a major paradigm modification.
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Re: PAR GP40-2Ws (MEC 500 Series)

Post by newpylong » Sat Jul 12, 2014 7:38 am

A major paradigm shift would be if we see new engines in Pan Am paint. If outsourcing loco rebuilds to keep the ancient fleet operating is what needs to happen that's relatively SOP.

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Re: PAR GP40-2Ws (MEC 500 Series)

Post by gokeefe » Sat Jul 12, 2014 8:39 pm

newpylong wrote:A major paradigm shift would be if we see new engines in Pan Am paint. If outsourcing loco rebuilds to keep the ancient fleet operating is what needs to happen that's relatively SOP.
If they're paying to outsource locomotive rebuilds I think we are not that far away from new power acquisition.
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Re: PAR GP40-2Ws (MEC 500 Series)

Post by KSmitty » Sat Jul 12, 2014 9:51 pm

gokeefe wrote:
newpylong wrote:A major paradigm shift would be if we see new engines in Pan Am paint. If outsourcing loco rebuilds to keep the ancient fleet operating is what needs to happen that's relatively SOP.
If they're paying to outsource locomotive rebuilds I think we are not that far away from new power acquisition.
George, I know you like the idea of new power, and god knows after the last few years with F's, SD's, and heritage painted GP9's anything is possible. However, there is a HUGE difference between trading a couple oddballs for "pretty train power" paying 80-100K/unit for SD40's, spending maybe $150K on a paint job and shelling out 2.5M for a single new unit. For the cost of maybe 2 new units they could have everything in the deadline running again.

Its just not gonna happen.

Now, newer power is always a possibility, SD60's or C40's or something built in the late 80's. Its a logical step forward, would provide similar unit reductions (last I knew NS considered an SD60 equal to any Dash-9, or ES40DC tonnage rating wise.) to new power for much cheaper pricing. The idea has been repeatedly presented here, and its been "confirmed' that they looked at something bigger/newer but didn't bite.

They "standardized" on the GP40, the SD40 is nothing but a 6 axle GP40. Same parts stock (except the wiring in some, since the -2/-3 means whole different electrical cabinet than the plain GP40's.) Shop forces all trained. The SD40-2 is the GP40 of the modern era. Lots of loose units for the taking at reasonable prices. Go pretty much anywhere, do anything. Completely rebuildable, over and over. Large parts stock on property already.

Not to downplay the sending out of units for rebuild, its quite big news in the history of the company. I do wonder though, the OOS 500's were reportedly sold and leased back. Could this just be the leasor getting sick of waiting for the units to be rebuilt?

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Re: PAR GP40-2Ws (MEC 500 Series)

Post by MEC407 » Sun Jul 13, 2014 9:59 am

KSmitty wrote:I do wonder though, the OOS 500's were reportedly sold and leased back. Could this just be the leasor getting sick of waiting for the units to be rebuilt?
That might be part of it. Another possibility: the shop in Kentucky may be able to do rebuilds less expensively than Waterville, and I'm certain they can do them faster. There could also be a convenience/efficiency factor: the Waterville employees are free to focus on regular everyday locomotive and car repairs while these other units are being rebuilt off-site.
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Re: PAR GP40-2Ws (MEC 500 Series)

Post by gokeefe » Sun Jul 13, 2014 9:04 pm

Speaking of repairs. I saw an entire flat bed trailer of rail axles heading south on I-95 today in North Augusta. Since I'm assuming the 500s are going to Kentucky on their own wheels I'm assuming if these axles came from PAR they were for car rebuilds. In that case it is interesting all the same as this would also be work that has previously been done in Waterville. Only other possibility is these wheelsets have just been rebuilt but they didn't appear to be in very good shape.
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Re: PAR GP40-2Ws (MEC 500 Series)

Post by KSmitty » Sun Jul 13, 2014 10:34 pm

500/513 are supposedly going on flatcars. A believable idea. 513 hasn't run in over 10 years. Sitting dead at Waterville for 10 years is a great way to wind up without any number of key pieces that make a unit safe to move on its own wheels, if there are even trucks/wheels underneath.

It was posted 2 pages back that 57 IATR high cubes were sent to Waterville for work. It is certainly possible that these wheelsets were from these cars, and were either a) deemed not worthy of repair and are on their way to scrap, b) being sent out for rebuild by another party. Edit, got the threads mixed up, it was posted 2 pages back in the "Up North Gawking thread".

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Re: PAR GP40-2Ws (MEC 500 Series)

Post by CN9634 » Mon Jul 14, 2014 7:03 am

The IATR boxes should be in service on NB Southern.

What size wheels were these? That will give us a lot more info.

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Re: PAR GP40-2Ws (MEC 500 Series)

Post by gokeefe » Mon Jul 14, 2014 9:43 pm

CN9634 wrote:What size wheels were these? That will give us a lot more info.
I don't know enough to say other I got the sense that they seemed unusually large, beefy axles and rather large diameter wheels. Definitely nothing off a shop truck!
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Re: PAR GP40-2Ws (MEC 500 Series)

Post by 690 » Tue Jul 15, 2014 4:30 am

GP40 would have 40 or 42 inch wheels if memory serves (40 iirc). Hi-cube boxcars would have thirty-six inch wheels (again, if memory serves me correctly).

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Re: PAR GP40-2Ws (MEC 500 Series)

Post by 690 » Sat Jul 19, 2014 9:09 am

The 515 has been repainted, and presumably rebuilt since the classification lights have been plated over.

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Re: PAR GP40-2Ws (MEC 500 Series)

Post by gokeefe » Mon Jul 21, 2014 11:07 pm

690 wrote:GP40 would have 40 or 42 inch wheels if memory serves (40 iirc). Hi-cube boxcars would have thirty-six inch wheels (again, if memory serves me correctly).
I would almost say that they were 40 inch wheels. They seemed unusually large to me, especially compared to wheel sets I have seen set out elsewhere in person.
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Re: PAR GP40-2Ws (MEC 500 Series)

Post by GP40MC1118 » Tue Jul 22, 2014 12:38 pm

This is a rumor that the MEC 345 may also go to Paducah.

D

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