Canadien National

[ToledoTerminalRy]

I have noticed very many different ways cars have CN'c full name spelled out along with the reporting marks (above the #'s)


I have seen:

Canadien National
Canadian National

CN
CNA
CNAA
CNIS

What are the differences in these spellings of the names and reporting marks? I know 'en is how CanadiENs spell (same with the hockey club)
but why so many different reporting marks just how bright people at CN are?

Ryan

[missthealcos]

CN was, until about 10 years ago, a Government owned Crown Corporation.
As such, the equipment was basically lettered Bilingually, English on one side, French on the other...Canadian National one side, Canadien National on the other..Now that it is privatized, and essentially an American company(especailly with the current top brass), There is a concerted effort to eliminate what CN actually means. There was even an internal company edict to employees to not use ANY of the variations of the full name, PERIOD this caused considerable uproar in Canada when it was leaked to the public, as for some reason, most people here seem to still think CN is still "our" National railway. The Feds got all up in arms, and denounced CN management for it, which was pretty much met with a "whatever, like you can to do anything about it" response from CN, no surprise there....the "de Canadianization" wasn't nearly as bad when Tellier was in charge, having been a fed previously, but now, with Hunter Harrison in charge, anything Canadian about it is being abolished, and very quickly. The new and extremely hideous paint scheme being applied to the E units, and business car fleet is a direct result of this, having previously been painted in 1950's era Canadian National colours, with french on one side(which was not accurate for the era) I'm personally betting the Illinois Central painted equipment will not be repainted as quickly, if at all..

Freight equipment is now painted with only the CN logo on it, and whichever reporting marks, usually in IC style lettering.

[fglk]

Canadièn National--French Spelling
Canadian National--English Spelling

Cars marked with CN are built under Canadian standereds and were not suposted to leave Canada. These cars do stray on occation thow.

Cars Marked with CNA are allowed to cross the boarders between the U.S. and Canada and back under some Nafta agreement.

Cars marked with CNAA are ment for use in the U.S.A only they were built in the U.S. under U.S. Standereds these cars were not suposted to leave the U.S. How ever CNAA Cars do stay on occation.

CNIS CN International Service
CNIX CN International Lease

I'm sure that NAFTA Has made some kind of agreements with CN and CNAA Cars to cross over county lines it used to be that the marks would report what cars could and could not cross the borders.

CP Rail uses the same codes
CP Canada Operation Only
CPAA CP Rail U.S. Operation Only
CPIS CP International Service
CPIX CP International Lease

Same here NAFTA Most likley changed all this by now.

[Montreal Ltd]

Generally any car can cross the border; the difference is in what they can do once they've crossed. Cars built in one country must return to it after being unloaded. They can take a load back, so long as the load is going across the border.

The Official Railway Equipment Register has some cars in the CN and CNIS series noted as "Under Customs Regulations - Authorized for Exclusive Use in International Service Between Canada and the United States." I'm not sure whether that means they can also be used in domestic service on either side.

Many of the CNA, CP and CPAA cars are noted "Cars were purchased in the United States and under US Customs Regulations may be used in the same manner as cars carrying marks of US owned railways in the handling of both International and US domestic traffic." Cars marked CPAA have always been seen in Canada, but are treated as being "owned" in the US.

[fglk]

Humm Thats intresting thanks for filling in the blanks I figured that there was more info on these cars.

[Montreal Ltd]

On Friday I saw boxcar IC 533271 in a full CN paint job, with the French "CANADIEN NATIONAL" on the side toward me. Wish I'd had my camera handy.

[fglk]

[Dieter]

For the record, I was always opposed to the sale of ANY Crown Corporation, be it CN, Air Canada or more recently, the travesty of the privatization of Petro Canada.

So, the identity of Canadian National is being "Americanized". Well, that mistake was made when they let Americans take over more than 51%. The percentage of foreign ownership should have been limited as it is in many Western European countries. Just wait until a vote has been announced, and the entire operation is renamed "Illinois Central / St. Lawrence", or perhaps "Gulf Rail". Gee, there's one to keep everyone wondering. Would it mean the Gulf of Mexico, or the Gulf of St. Lawrence? You know they'd never clarify that one.

The first thing I noticed after the sale of the railway was the European type markings of single letters on the freight cars, with the Noodle Logo, or "Lazy Three" as some call it, being dropped. It has suddenly reemerged after about four years. Perhaps some idiot in marketing woke up the people in the board room about the value of a recognized trade mark.

The CN noodle logo has begun to reappear at the same time that the Web address "WWW.CN.CA" is being stenciled on locomotives. The CN Noodle has been joined on the sides of equipment with the Web address, though it is much smaller than before. I suppose some American who read a book about the Penn Central spouted in a meeting that a smaller logo would use less paint, thus, saving money. Some other idiot sitting at that conference table thought that guy was smart, too. Nothing like an original idea.

Is there hope? YES THERE IS! Proof? The Web address they have put on equipment recently has the ".CA" suffix for CANADA. Perhaps the Americans at the helm who hate Canada so much just haven't gotten around to making Canadian National a "Dot Com Company" yet.

OK, I'm old fashioned when it comes to CN, but not going back to the Maple Leaf logo in the 50's. When the CN North America logo came out, I have to admit that I first thought the image of the Continent was peeling paint. One CN employee said his crew called it "The Birth Mark". That logo was as impressive as a Nouvelle Cuisine meal when you're starving. Everyone had to squint at first to figure out what the damned thing was.

The CNNA logo was poorly concieved, poorly implemented and worst of all, some jerk decided to make the Noodle Logo even smaller than ever with it. You have to admit that when looking head on at the face of an AC4400, the noodle looks rather puny on the large nose!

So, what have we got now for a logo? We've gotten around the racist Quebec Language Laws by using mere letters. The Noodle has returned, why, we don't know yet. The future is here with a Website address. I wonder where it's all going? They think it's going to Mexico. Gee, there's something to look forward to. Perhaps they should bring back CN passenger cars, to take all those jobs south of the Rio Grande.

I think Canadian corporations need to adopt the CRTC "Canadian Content" law. That means EVERYTHING has to be at LEAST 60% Canadian. Even if they did, I fear it's too late for our beloved Canadien National!

Dieter.

[missthealcos]

I don't know where you live in Canada, but if you are opposed to privatization for nothing more than the sake of same, which is exactly what is going on here, then I Hope you don't live in BC....alll we can do here is bash our heads against the wall while they shortsightedly literally give everything away, things that our tax dollars built. Oh well, it's largely the ignorant publics fault that they get away with this type of thing to begin with....If I have to correct one more person who says "well, at least BC Rail was sold to a Canadian company"...people are stupid. I don't even think the government knows, or cares.

Personally, I would have rathered BNSF got it, at least they would have run it as a railway, CN only wants the realestate..let the final dismantling begin

[fglk]

[Dieter]

My experience in living in Canada is confined to Quebec and New Brunswick. I'm against selling off the Crown Corporations for the same reason I'm against the trashing of Socialized Medicine. It's not in the best interest of the People, nor the Nation.

CN sold off lines to drum up cash to purchase IC and get rid of people they would soon enough have to pay full pensions to. Why? Once more, for the sake of the precious shareholder.

Isn't it funny that CN bought an American outfit, and ended up with a bunch of Americans at the helm? This is as totally bogus as Free Trade itself. Free Trade didn't do anyone in North America any good, including the Mexican workers. It did the industrialists a world of good in increasing profits by taking advantage of cheap, non-union labor, but the little guy who tries to take a SHARP TV over the border into Canada from the States has to pay duty through the nose. Go figure.

BC Rail will probably be sold off as a dinky independent, with all the new equipment siphoned off to CN, while old CP scrap is left and given to the new owner, as at CBC and NBEC. Oh, let's not forget the guys who revel in working for an outfit like CN with stock options, a union and a pension plan, who will be forced into taking a buyout for the privilige to stay with the independent, or relocate to stay with CN. Here we go again.

CN & CP NEVER should have given up passenger service, and CN NEVER should have been sold. VIA is consistently cut back, with a party line from Ottawa to the media that "Nobody rides the train anymore." BS!

In Canada, if you try to take the train at the last minute, YOU CAN'T GET A SEAT! Let's face it. The only way to get around Canada is by train. The only way to get around Canada in the WINTER is BY TRAIN. To fly within Canada is as expensive as flying from an Eastern US city to Moscow. Have you taken a look at the price of a ticket from Newark or La Guardia in New York, to Toronto, Winnipeg or Halifax?

The railroads brought Canada together, and still have a greater role in moving it's citizens than Amtrak does in the US.

Is there money to be made in the passenger rail business? IN CANADA, THE ANSWER IS YES. Use a little creative management, make the train attractive, ADD CARS AND TRAINS and guess what? More people will use the train becuase you can't even get a flight to most places in Canada people need to go.

Riders using the new Renaissance equipment on the VIA Ocean HATE the cars. I was told the seats are uncomfortable, don't recline properly, tall people are hitting their heads on everything, and hey look Ma! NO DOME! Boy, some pseudo-tourist minded idiot messed up on that one! I'm told the lounge is like an AMCAFE, a true joke for a train that makes an 18 hour overnight trip.

So, what does this have to do with CN? EVERYTHING. It's all part of the same decay that wrenched the CN from serving the people of Canada, to serving a select group of investors. Canadian National is another casualty of Globalization. In my last note here I mentioned that you may even see a name change in the works. Don't be surprised if some corporate loser pipes up at the table that; "We need a different corporate name with greater recognition. Let's rename the operation Illinois Central". That crossed my mind when I noticed so many freshly painted IC freight cars in Quebec a few weeks ago. They were in better shape than ALL of the CN gear I saw.

Like you said, the taxpayers built it, and it's been sold off for spit.

Dieter.

[Montreal Ltd]

Dieter, CN didn't adopt initials on its logo because of pro-French Quebec language laws. There weren't any such laws in 1961, and as a company under federal jurisdiction, CN isn't subject to them anyway. It is subject to the federal Official Languages Act (which promotes bilingualism), which also didn't exist when the CN logo came out. CN's president Donald Gordon had received flack in Quebec for being seen as anti-French. To counteract this he dropped the "R" from CNR because the initials weren't meaningful in French. "Canadian" and "Canadien" were painted on opposite sides in order to be seen as fair. All this occurred at the beginning of Quebec's "quiet revolution", and long before anybody's language laws.

As for Americanization, CN seems to be converting the US properties to its own image rather than adopting an explicitly American image.

You suggested that CN and CP should never have got out of the passenger business, and could be making big money in it today. Even if they could make money at it, they would be able to make far more using the same facilities for freight. The fact is that passenger transportation has always been a marginal business, regardless of the mode. Sure, some people can make a lot of money sometimes (like WestJet), but most of the time, most of the operators aren't doing that well. With a limited physical plant running at close to capacity, the railways are going to favour the traffic which brings in the best return. Usually that means freight. To do otherwise is economic suicide. While there can be money in some passenger operations, most of it can only be operated with the help of public subsidies. This doesn't mean it shouldn't be operated; rather it means that where passenger service is desirable in the public interest but won't cover its costs from fares paid, the difference should be paid by public funds since the public benefits.

Don

[fglk]

[Dieter]

VIA on time? Quite the contrary.

A recent article regarding the chronic lateness of VIA trains directly blames - and blame is openly accepted - by CN.

CN says they're running over capacity (funny, during what the Democrats in the States claim to be a poor economic period in history. Perhaps CN's shuttling empties to keep busy?) and VIA trains are literally "Getting in the way".

CN cites one source of VIA delays is congestion due to trains being assembled which are "TOO LONG for the passing tracks". I couldn't believe that. What kind of idiot would send a train out on the road which is too large for a passing track? I saw a new passing being either constructed/reconstructed/lengthened, just south of Levis, Quebec last month. It made me wonder why the entire length of the CN main between Montreal and Montmagny, or even to Riviere Du Loup, isn't double tracked to handle the traffic?

Reports these days of "The Ocean" being two to four hours late, are becoming routine. If you're taking VIA these days, you'd best pad your connection times.

Dieter.

[AmtrakFan]

I was against the bought of DMIR, PLE, WC, BCR and who ever was the 3rd RR in PA they got. Also I think that it Garbage that when CN brought IC they got America Excutives to Take Over also Hunter Harrison works in Chicago someone Told me on RRF. Also I wish that it would be Candian National I could understand where Candian would be mad. Also CN needs new Excutives I could run CN better than EHH I'd bring back Steam Excersion so groups can run them.

AmtrakFan