Unit Coal Train Speeds- Powder River Basin

[Low_water]

I've read several times (although not recently) that BNSF and UP routinely dispatch unit coal trains with tonnage such that top speeds are extremely low (10-15 MPH max).

I have 3 questions for anyone who might know:
(1) Was this true?
(2) Is it still true?
(3) What's the logic in doing this compared to operating more numerous, shorter trains at much higher speed?

Any info would be greatly appreciated.

[UPRR engineer]

Not true, 50 or 60mph is what they do.

[TB Diamond]

Depending on what sub they are operating, unit coal trains were 50 mph (over 100 tons per operating brake). On some subs they were 45 mph. Hopper trains were also 50 mph most subs but Denver-Brush hopper trains were authorized 60 mph. Info may be dated as I retired 5.5 years ago.

[freshmeat]

I wouldn't say they dispatch them for that speed, that is just all they can make on the Orin subdivision. A 16,000 ton train with .8 hp/ton will not make a whole lot of speed on 1 to 2% grades. However, from say Lincoln east to Kansas City, .5 hp/ton will get them the speed they need. Also on the Orin sub, speed is limited by the amount of traffic. If you juiced them up like a Z train, 3-5 hp/ton, you would need to use a lot and I mean a lot more power that due to traffic congestion, would not be able to go anywhere fast. Unit trains like coal and grain trains are powered with the minimum power require to make a speed close to track speed, but rarely easily up to track speed.

[TB Diamond]

fresh:

The maximum authorized speeds for coal trains quoted above in my post of 20 Feb. are from the special instructions for each subdivision. Big difference in maximum authorized speed and average speed, of course. I worked the Orin Line for 14.5 years. The fastest I ever went up Logan Hill with a coal train was 13.0 mph with the exception of the little Rawhide train which was another matter. Fastest trip ever Gillette-Guernsey was with train 92, Gillette-Wendover and taxi to Guernsey 6'30" OD. Fastest with a coal train was 9'35" Gillette-Guernsey: taxi Gillette-Rawhide Mine, Rawhide Mine-Wendover R70, taxi Wendover-Guernsey. Both trips made back in the late 1980s. Congestion on the Orin Line in later years would basically prevent such trips.

[bnsfym]

I agree diamond, traffic on the Orin line is unreal most of the time. I did have one really fast trip right after Christmas 2006. Honest to god made it from track 3 guernsey yard to black thunder, and taxi to gillette in 8hrs 10 min. There was a lot of ice south and west of guernsey, no traffic whatsoever. Got on the train and already had a signal out of the yard and never saw anything other than a green untill the aproach to the mine. Sweet trip. But I also had my share of 14 hrs and move 2 or 3 miles. One trip got on at antelope and never turned a wheel. I have since moved from gillette though, had all of that place I could stand.

[MetraBNSF]

A lot of Powder River Basin trains travel along the BNSF Chicago Sub along the commuter district and they average between 30-45mph in most instances. Going west out of Chicago between Cicero (MP 7.0) and Westmont (MP 19.4) the line is on an uphill grade with Westmont being the highest point.

[Ken W2KB]

I've read several times (although not recently) that BNSF and UP routinely dispatch unit coal trains with tonnage such that top speeds are extremely low (10-15 MPH max).

I have 3 questions for anyone who might know:
(1) Was this true?
(2) Is it still true?
(3) What's the logic in doing this compared to operating more numerous, shorter trains at much higher speed?

Any info would be greatly appreciated.

Coal is not perishable and the customers only need a regular deliverly. Long trains versus more frequent shorter ones mean fewer crews and lower cost.

[John_Perkowski]

SB coal on the ex-CB&Q going from St Joseph MO into Murray Yard NKC MO typrically runs 45-60MPH.

NB empties on the same line typically run 60MPH.

[timz]

...tonnage such that top speeds are extremely low (10-15 MPH max).

Most subdivisions have some upgrade and some downgrade. As long as the train has enough power to handle the upgrades at, say, 1 mph or more, then maximum speed on the level and downgrade will be lots more than 10-15 mph.

Perfectly true that coal trains climb hills at 10-15 mph-- but that's not their "top speed".

[atsf sp]

In the powder river basin, gilette I saw trains running between 5 and 30 mph, I'd say. But some of the plain freights were doing around 50mph cause it was a race to catch the head end power.(Freight warbonnet was leading) But around the yard outside of Gillette to the east, i'd say between 5 and 10mph. But the coal outside of the Powder River Basin go fast. I was on the old Northern pacific mainline in Medora, ND and coal trains were running at around 60mph. Alliance, NE the trains were running between 5 and 10 also.