Amtrak Diner and Food Service Discussion

[mtuandrew]

As much as we hate to admit it, and knowing that some posters here were around for the SP Automatic days, Amtrak should really have vending machines in the lounge cars. That is in addition to the attendant and counter!! Not in place of them; they would be stocked with bottled beverages and bagged snacks rather than dry goods and heat-and-eat food (including coffee.) It leads to better accountability, better availability of food during break times, and generally a better environment.

[Tadman]

This would also be a great place to implement a customer loyalty program. How often do you hear they sold out of something in a cafe or diner? Like every darn time.

If a customer loyalty program were in place, they could see by rider and more broadly demographic what is popular, and prevent running out of stuff that could otherwise sell more and increase the contribution toward covering the losses in the cafe/diner.

I have a friend that deals with this in consumer package goods (IE the stuff we buy at Kroger/Walmart/CVS/gas stations) and this work is very advanced and useful. Why Amtrak doesn't use it is beyond me, but not surprising.

[lordsigma12345]

It shall be interesting to see to what extent , if at all, these "service enhancements" are in place for my upcoming "Voyage 25" on 52(26):

https://amtrak.com/alert/auto-train-202 ... ments.html

Considering my admitted cynicism regarding Amtrak LD's, I'm expecting nothing other than a ride and vehicle transport. I could be looking at a "Why, Why, Why", if this were strictly a joyride, but so long as I have a Lunch scheduled in Stafford on arrival Monday, and wish to make two "bootleg" stops at "grape juice dispensaries" before heading West to a tie up in Akron, there is a purpose for using AT.

It's a mystery. None of these new fares they talked about show up yet. Wednesday is supposed to be the food changes in coach. It will be interesting to see if the sleeper menu also changes. The current sleeper menu shown on Amtrak's website isn't accurate anyway, when I traveled in October it wasn't what's shown which is dated February.

[WashingtonPark]

This would also be a great place to implement a customer loyalty program. How often do you hear they sold out of something in a cafe or diner? Like every darn time.

If a customer loyalty program were in place, they could see by rider and more broadly demographic what is popular, and prevent running out of stuff that could otherwise sell more and increase the contribution toward covering the losses in the cafe/diner.

I have a friend that deals with this in consumer package goods (IE the stuff we buy at Kroger/Walmart/CVS/gas stations) and this work is very advanced and useful. Why Amtrak doesn't use it is beyond me, but not surprising.

They sell out of the NY strip steak all the time on the diners. I'm sure they are fine with forcing you into the cheaper meals that are left since they've already collected your money up front.

[Tadman]

And this would be a good time to drop the free meals, then let you pay for what you want. If people are willing to pay for the steak, why limit them? Budget is not likely a constraint if we are talking sleeper passengers, as sleeper is absolutely not cheap.

[lordsigma12345]

They are supposedly supposed to be bringing an electronic POS system to the trains that would help track preferences and help with stocking. Additionally they are supposed to implement an advance Pretrip meal selection that would allow people to preselect meals and be guaranteed their choice.

[east point]

They are supposedly supposed to be bringing an electronic POS system to the trains that would help track preferences and help with stocking. Additionally they are supposed to implement an advance Pretrip meal selection that would allow people to preselect meals and be guaranteed their choice.

If Amtrak initiated POS then trey could set up intermediate station stockings of meals as well. Probably will not be possible until they get Arrow system into the 21st century. DOS based and maybe even machine language with too many reservations in system limits additional abilities.

[Arlington]

I think it was Margaret Thatcher who said: "The problem with Socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's NY Strip Steak"

[Arborwayfan]

Yes. Stop including food in sleeper prices. Wanting a bed and wanting a full plated meal 3x/day are two different questions. To me, the worst thing about the contemporary dining options is that they took a whole car that used to serve decent meals to anyone on the train and turned it over to sleeper passengers to eat less-decent meals in.

I've said before: let people order their food beforehand for a slight discount, no matter what kind of ticket they have.

Surely a little thought and experimentation can get a variety of decent food, both hot and cold, and none of it nasty. They are trying already; as a lot of people here seem to agree, the issue is not whether there's a chef on board cooking from scratch, but whether the food is any good and whether there's a comfortable place to eat it.

Run diners, diners-lite, cafes, automats, or whatever is the most economical/attractive/effective (may need to choose among these) way of serving food. Have contractors hang food on mail cranes after passengers order it by phone app, if that works.

Any option is going to cost more than similar food at a stationary restaurant that doesn't need roller bearings, inspections, latches to secure equipment, etc., and which doesn't carry its workers away from home or outrun its sources of supply. I don't think it's reasonable to expect people to work the LD cafe hours for the same lousy pay as low-end restaurant wait-staff do on "land," and I personally don't want to have Amtrak join the restaurant industry in turning decent jobs into lousy ones; nevertheless, MAYBE in the context of a real rethinking of food service (as opposed to little tweaks here and there), Amtrak and the unions could come to a new arrangement that would make sense. Some kind of change in the craft boundaries might even make the car and cafe attendants' jobs easier and/or more interesting/varied, especially if new POS tech made sales and inventory easier to do.

[Tadman]

Yes. Stop including food in sleeper prices. Wanting a bed and wanting a full plated meal 3x/day are two different questions. To me, the worst thing about the contemporary dining options is that they took a whole car that used to serve decent meals to anyone on the train and turned it over to sleeper passengers to eat less-decent meals in.

Totally agree. In today's app-savvy age, passengers can order food ahead of time to predict what meals are needed, when they're needed, and if a diner is even needed. If only 2 passengers order food on a certain day, can they leave the diner behind on that run? Or perhaps midweek in off-season like January the diner can be left off in cases of low demand.

You could also offer a much higher grade of food that might start to better defray the cost of the diner. Perhaps a standard $29.99 meal with salad, hamburger or turkey sandwich, soda, and cheesecake, or $59.99 for prime rib, or $99.99 for lobster and/or steak. Heck why not a $199.99 option provided by a local restaurant and delivered via postmates for a bottle of bubbly and wagyu steak? The on-board costs are the same, and if it's pre-order, there is little spoliage of the expensive lobster.

[WashingtonPark]

Yes. Stop including food in sleeper prices. Wanting a bed and wanting a full plated meal 3x/day are two different questions. To me, the worst thing about the contemporary dining options is that they took a whole car that used to serve decent meals to anyone on the train and turned it over to sleeper passengers to eat less-decent meals in.

I'm all for that. Here's the problem. Back in the late 70s, early 80s. For the same reason you get very few coach passengers in for dinner, the sleeper passengers weren't going all the time either. I actually saw passengers come in, see the prices and leave. We rarely had to share a table and normally only half the car would be open. The attendant told me they were bleeding red and accurately predicted Amtrak would force sleeping car passengers to buy all meals up front and list this as a perk to get somewhat close to break even. That's why Amtrak is so OK with running out of the expensive stuff in the diner. It helps the bottom line. If they ever stopped gouging the passengers and stopped forcing prepaid meals that would be the end of the dining car. Contemporary meals would be on everything, although hopefully they would have a much better plan for it then they do now.

[Tadman]

So I guess we have two scenarios here:

1. At one time the passengers had the diner optional, found the prices too expensive, and skipped it. The diner was empty.

2. At another more recent time, the free (for sleepers) diner was downgraded or dropped, resulting in thing like Cross Country Cafe and Anderson meals. Supposedly people are freaking out and they're considering bringing the diner back.

This is crazy. You either pay for a good meal or you get a crummy meal free. It is nuts to expect a good free meal, especially if the carrier is losing money all around on the sleeper and diner.

[Arborwayfan]

Thanks for that, Washington Park. That's interesting, and explains a lot.

Maybe they can feel their way around to something like Tadman describes: a whole range of price options, with expensive fancy things and cheap plain things but no nasty things. There's food that's cheap even when it's good, like hot dogs or hummus and carrots; these days, when dressing for dinner is long past and no one's seriously trying to make the diner an elegant sanctuary for rich people, there's no real reason not to serve the whole range in the same car. The basic idea of contemporary dining -- pre-prepared food that can be good on board whenever you want it with limited cooking and cleaning staff -- really could be adapted to serve it all, because the cost of serving pre-prepared food on board would be about the same for a cheap thing or an expensive thing. Moreover, if pre-prepared food required less time, all diners could use all the tables, instead of taking up 2, 3, or four four salad dressing, flatware, and other supplies as often happens now. With more tables to seat more people and sell more food, it would be easier to cover the costs of the car and staff (assuming they could charge enough to more than cover the cost of the food itself). And with less space needed for prep, it should be possible to stock more food, making it actually possible to make the diner, or combined diner-cafe a-la-CONO, into a higher-turnover operation that would reduce unit costs.

[Rockingham Racer]

There's no such thing as a free meal. You've prepaid for all of them when you book your sleeping car accomodation.

This idea keeps coming up on various boards: why can't they serve Acela First Class type meals in dining cars?

[JoeG]

I just looked up prices for a roomette on the Silver Star and the Silver Meteor for a date in March. The timetable says the Meteor has flexible dining service and the Star has only cafe car service. I priced NYP-MIA for same date both trains. The Meteor, with alleged dining service, was only about $12 more than the Star with buy your own in the cafe car service.

Is this a temporary lapse? Seems like the last time I looked the price difference was much more. I mean, however crummy Amtrak food is, $12 for probably 3 meals is less than you would spend in the cafe car.

What am I missing?