Cost of Dead-heading

[Greg Moore]

A comment on another thread reminded me of a question I've had for years.
Apparently years ago (may still be true) the Empire Service dead-headed a train back to Albany at like 1:00 AM to balance out the fleet (I could be wrong on this, but for a second assume it's true).

So really two questions:
1) How many corridors have trains that dead-head? I can't imagine many.
2) What's the cost vs. actually taking passengers. I assume the engineer's pay is the same either way. I believe a conductor is still required? So is crew cost any different?

I can understand an advantage of a dead-headed train is you don't have to worry about a particular schedule. You can pass stations early or late and not risk annoying passengers.
BUT, assuming something like the Portland-Boston deadhead mentioned in the other thread, or the mythical (to me deadhead of NYP-ALB, would it not be possible to offset SOME of the cost by selling tickets, but boldly marking them with something like, "Look, we can't guarantee when we'll get there, but we will, so don't expect anything other than a ride."

Or are there other regulatory advantages of running a train as a dead-head vs. even with say 1/2 dozen passengers?

[WhartonAndNorthern]

Train 95 (the earlier of the two weekday SB's to Norfolk; the other is 93) drops off passengers in Nofolk on Friday evening and then deadheads back to Richmond. The weekday Amtrak schedule has 2 RTs for Norfolk and 1 RT for Richmond (plus 2 for NPN). The Saturday schedule reverses this so train 95's equipment is needed to provide this extra Richmond round trip. The weekend SB Norfolk train is #87. On Sunday an additional SB, #157 brings the equipment back to Norfolk to provide for the two Monday morning NB departures.

[Tadman]

Dead heading is also cheaper because there are much smaller crew requirements.

If you think Amtrak's deadheading might be expensive, the Brits will deadhead a train across the country, all the dang time. The Cally deadheads from Inverness or Aberdeen to near Glasgow all the time for servicing. But then again, that's the country that also ships cars and locomotives by truck all the time. I don't pretend to understand...

[DutchRailnut]

The Empire service deadhead might have purpose of both fleet balancing and to get non-compliance equipment back to Rensselear shop.
which can not be done in revenue service.

[Arborwayfan]

"Look, we can't guarantee when we'll get there, but we will, so don't expect anything other than a ride."

That would just be truth in advertising for most of the LD trains.

[rohr turbo]

Apparently years ago (may still be true) the Empire Service dead-headed a train back to Albany at like 1:00 AM

Are you saying this was a regularly scheduled deadhead?

In the early 80s Amtrak ran a round trip Schenectady-GCT, "Electric City Express." South in the morning and north in the evening. Since the turbos could not overnight in SDY, this required a morning run ALB-SDY and an evening run (around 9 pm) SDY-ALB. BUT, those positioning moves carried revenue passengers. Bet the trains were fairly empty.

[mtuandrew]

If there was (say) one passenger car open only on said positioning move, would that be a small enough number of cars for a two person crew of engineer and conductor to watch, or would there have to be an assistant conductor by union rules?

[Tadman]

Bet the trains were fairly empty.

I bet I can top that. Every day South Shore runs two early AM deadheads, MIchigan City to South Bend. Every night they run two SB-MC. They're in the timetable and carry passengers. I bet that's the emptiest train in the world.

[STrRedWolf]

It really depends on demand and room to store the equipment.

I know one instance where MARC was dead-heading Baltimore Penn to Perryville. Passengers were asking for morning service up there (because a casino opened up there) and MARC turned the dead-head to a passenger run.

I also know that MARC has to dead-head a Brunswick line train back up the CSX line just because there was no room at Washington Union Station to tie it up for the day... and then haul it back down for service back to Brunswick. This on top of having other equipment on previous runs do a few runs on the Penn or Camden lines.

I won't be surprised if Amtrak has to do the same on some of the Virginia ends of the NEC.

[rcthompson04]

Does Amtrak 639 (the Keystone that runs from NYP to 30th Street late) sort of act as a deadhead? Looking at the schedule it looks like it is needed to go to Harrisburg early in the morning out of 30th Street.

[ryanch]

Dead heading is also cheaper because there are much smaller crew requirements.

If you think Amtrak's deadheading might be expensive, the Brits will deadhead a train across the country, all the dang time. The Cally deadheads from Inverness or Aberdeen to near Glasgow all the time for servicing. But then again, that's the country that also ships cars and locomotives by truck all the time. I don't pretend to understand...

That's interesting. But it's important to put "across the country" in perspective. It's an Island only a bit longer, and not as wide, as Illinois. Aberdeen-Glasgow at 146 miles is only 50 further than Norfolk-Richmond.

[David Benton]

Its around 150 miles to Glasgow.Aberdeen is a city, Inverness is a large village/small town. Both have servicing facilities , so its probably a consequence of the franchise system that they find it cheaper to move them to their own servicing facility in Glasgow.

[Greg Moore]

The Empire service deadhead might have purpose of both fleet balancing and to get non-compliance equipment back to Rensselear shop.
which can not be done in revenue service.

I'm pretty sure it was a regular fleet-balancing move, but probably also used for the 2nd reason you give.

So, I think the 2nd part is probably the biggest reason they never made it a revenue train.
My understanding is that with just 1-2 cars open, an engineer and conductor are sufficient, but you're right if they were transporting non-compliant equipment it would negate passenger travel.

[eolesen]

Bet the trains were fairly empty.

I bet I can top that. Every day South Shore runs two early AM deadheads, MIchigan City to South Bend. Every night they run two SB-MC. They're in the timetable and carry passengers. I bet that's the emptiest train in the world.

Metra does quite a bit of deadheading: http://www.chicagorailfan.com/deadhead.html

Three deadheads I know of on the UP.... On the UPNW, there's a Harvard-Barrington every evening (arrives around 7pm in Barrington), plus a late night Harvard-Crystal Lake four nights a week and on the fifth night it heads Harvard-Chicago. UPW has a weekday early evening Elmhurst-Chicago deadhead.

The 0030 train 603 out of Chicago to Harvard is pretty much empty west of Barrington (the halfway point mileage wise).

[David Benton]

A dead head crew on a commuter run doesn't necessarily incur the full cost. In the absence of split shifts, the early/late crew may just be spending the start/ end of their shift sitting in the crew room anyway.
Surprised there,s been no grateful dead references.