No more charter trains

[rwk]

But will this affect Amtrak's Autumn Express? Does this mean that they won’t have an Autumn Express this year? I thought that was a neat way to take a day long trip by train and travel over rare freight only mileage to boot. I missed the ones that ran out of Philly and NY/NJ and ran on NS’s freight only lines through Reading and Allentown. I guess NS is now anti excursion, too since they are no longer hosting steam excursions with 611. VMT wanted to work with Amtrak to operate 611, but now that’s out the window. I think what it is, is that NS and Amtrak want to show that they can be lean, which means cutting the fat, cutting anything that doesn’t make a profit or improve the bottom line. Unfortunately excursions are among the things to be cut.

[blockline4180]

But will this affect Amtrak's Autumn Express? Does this mean that they won’t have an Autumn Express this year? I thought that was a neat way to take a day long trip by train and travel over rare freight only mileage to boot. I missed the ones that ran out of Philly and NY/NJ and ran on NS’s freight only lines through Reading and Allentown. I guess NS is now anti excursion, too since they are no longer hosting steam excursions with 611.

That's exactly what It means.. No Autumn Express and it was mentioned already by some.

What I been wondering is what Wick Morman thinks about all this.. Probably didn't expect it, and probably upset about it since he is a bit of a buff and PV car enthusiast.. I guess he can't do much about it just like the rest of us... Only hope is too keep nailing away at the congressmen who oversee the transportation.

[mtuandrew]

Col. Perkowski: add MSP to your list of major originating stations, and the 261 group to the list of angry private car organizations.

This was a bad year for charter accidents and private car failures, so it makes sense that a new CEO would assume this is always how costly charters are to Amtrak. I wonder if there’s room for AAPRCO to work with Amtrak, raise the maintenance inspection standards, increase the car-mile rate, and reopen charters.

[rwk]

But who made the decision? Anderson or Congress? I guess if you want to ride a long train ride you can still ride the Pennsylvanian to Pittsburgh or ride to Boston or Washington on a regular Amtrak train. Too bad for the rare mileage collectors, though. This will most likely kill most if not all rare mileage excursions that used Amtrak crews, equipment, etc. Now I missed the opportunity to ride the freight only Lehigh and Reading lines from Aldene, NJ to Harrisburg, PA. That was covered by 2016’s Autumn Express which I didn’t ride. I did ride behind 765 twice on Horseshoe Curve and Bethlehem-Pittston excursions though, and 611 from Manassas June 2016. I’m glad I rode those since steam excursions on NS are most likely over. Now even the New River Train might end after 51 years. The only mainline operations that are not affected are UP’s, and maybe 261. The 844 and 261 excursions this summer are most likely still happening. Maybe 765 out of Chicago if they can work out getting the cars like the domes transported to Chicago. E8 excursion from Philly to Altoona in May still happening. For those of you in the Reading, PA area and Chattanooga, TN, there are nice long train excursions on Reading and Northern RDC, diesel and 425 trips and TVRM Summerville Steam Specials.

[Arlington]

This forum talks a lot about new frequencies or train-lengthenings that are impossible due to a shortage of Amfleet equipment.

Where does the equipment come from for charter moves, particularly weekday charters?

Seems to me that at the right price, both charters and PV moves would be good business. One serious question with all of these, though, is would the current users be actually willing to pay that "right price" if it meant paying more?

[mtuandrew]

The only mainline operations that are not affected are UP’s, and maybe 261. The 844 and 261 excursions this summer are most likely still happening.

BNSF has worked with the 261 folks for both employee and public excursions in the past, so they might be willing to play directly with each other rather than cutting Amtrak into the picture.

[rwk]

What about 611 then? Looks like VMT is screwed. If neither NS or Amtrak will host excursions then 611 will have no place to run and will probably sit at the VMT. Mainline steam in the East is now over, again. Except for Reading and Northern, TVRM, etc. which have their own railroad to run on and in the case of TVRM trackage rights over a shortline.

[Backshophoss]

This is the legal Dept and the Insurance carrier saying it's NO longer worth the risk to operate Charter services for ANY reason.
The Caycee wreck on CSX,and the charter run wreck to Greenbrier resort as the reasons to do this.

[rwk]

Here we go again, lawyers. They kill all the fun. This is truly the end of most special excursions on class 1 railroads operated with Amtrak. I guess this means no more opportunities to ride rare mileage routes like the NS freight only lines from NJ to Harrisburg and Philly, which were covered by past Autumn Expresses. I guess all those Amtrak accidents were one of the straws for the decision. I’m riding a photo freight excursion powered by two MP15 diesels on Reading and Northern this May 5 from Port Clinton to Hazleton area. The tracks north of Haucks wye are rare mileage that is normally freight only. Reading and Northern is very excursion friendly and will host special charters like this. Once they have the 2102 running, then they will be the place to go for big steam in the East. Then, Steamtown will have the 3713 running, and maybe the WMSR 1309.

[John_Perkowski]

I guess this means no more opportunities to ride rare mileage routes like the NS freight only lines from NJ to Harrisburg and Philly, which were covered by past Autumn Expresses.

The job of Amtrak is to transport people between destinations. It does not have charters or tourist trips in its mission statement that I know of.

[rwk]

What about bus companies? They have charter trips that aren’t part of the normal schedules. As for Amtrak, you can still ride it for fun on the regular routes. For example, a circle trip from NY to Chicago and back via the Lake Shore Limited, Capitol Limited, and NEC. You could layover at Chicago overnight.

[ryanov]

I can’t see how the Autumn Express could be losing money. They tickets are reasonably expensive, the crew is volunteer, it sells out, and I think it’s a, what, 16 car train?

[rwk]

I wish Amtrak would at least keep that so that there will be future opportunities to ride rare mileage that doesn't normally have Amtrak service, like the NS freight lines (ex-Reading) east of Harrisburg, etc. It's usually only one weekend a year in October or November and probably doesn't disrupt normal operations much.

[JimBoylan]

I can’t see how the Autumn Express could be losing money.

Amtrak's fares and other revenues don't bring in enough extra money to cover the capital costs of replacing equipment, track, etc. Unless the individual special train covers the entire cost of that replacement, as well as its direct costs and overhead, the wear and tear it causes advance the evil day when money must be found for replacements. The same argument was one of the reasons used for getting out of the carload express business, it didn't pay for all of the money that would eventually be needed to replace the necessary switching locomotives, which were already elderly and idle before it started.
Sarcasm follows:
The Donald uses a similar argument about Amazon using the United States Postal Service as its "delivery boy". Since the Post Office looses money on everything it moves, any additional package it handles is more tax money that has to be diverted from building The Wall.

[rohr turbo]

The job of Amtrak is to transport people between destinations. It does not have charters or tourist trips in its mission statement that I know of.

Charter trains ARE transporting people between destinations.

Tourist business isn't serious enough for you?? Better kick half the people off the LD trains then.

IF the charters are covering their variable costs, then they are a net positive to the business and should stay.

The fact that a dump truck ignored the gates in front of a charter train instead of in front of a regularly-scheduled train is a pretty flimsy reason to shut down this aspect of Amtrak's operations.