Buffalo Central Station under Amtrak (Past, Present, Future)

[terminalfanatic]

Yet another use of the Central Terminal is shot down...

http://www.buffalonews.com/cityregion/n ... 33991.html

By Mark Sommer
NEWS STAFF REPORTER
July 15, 2009, 7:28 AM
Buffalo’s Central Terminal will not be used as a train station if New York receives stimulus funds to build high-speed rail, a key Congress member said Tuesday. Rep. Louise M. Slaughter, who heads the Upstate New York Caucus, which has made bringing high-speed rail to Western and Central New York a top priority, said the station is ill-suited to become a rail hub again. “At first I had hoped [it could be], but I don’t think it’s situated in the right place,” said Slaughter, D-Fairport. “[State] transit officials tell me it would not be suitable, which is too bad. I can tell you they absolutely love it; it’s the last of its kind left in the United States.”

[SimTrains]

Skip Carrier, a state Department of Transportation spokesman, later explained that the presence of several freight tracks at the northwestern section of the Central Terminal rail yard made the return of passenger service there unlikely.

This makes absolutely no sense. Central terminal was built at the height of the railroad era, the whole layout can be rebuilt to accommodate both freight and passenger service. It served them both before, why not now??? Also, how much "freight" is being moved on these tracks? The tracks in question are the yard leads that were used to enter/exit and build trains for Frontier Yard, last I knew the yard was shut down. So, how much use are these freight tracks seeing??

Support for this high speed line was incredibly soft to begin with, by coming out and saying that BCT will no longer be the Buffalo hub is a very poor decision on Rep. Louise M. Slaughter part.

[Railroaded]

Don't even worry about it, high speed rail won't get built in New York State within our lifetimes anyway.

-B in B

[Flat-Wheeler]

It's no longer the height of any rail era, and honestly not the height of US economic strength. Everything that was do-able back then is now a overly long drawn out process, costing a hundred times more. America has become lazy & greedy. Nobody wants to run the full distance, or pull their share of the weight. When it's too much work, everything hits the fan.

Also, if those are the lead tracks to a closed Frontier they're referring to, it's not an abandoned yard. Furthermore, the yard is still used, but with fewer employees and no hump bowl classification. CSX is willing to restore hump ops if traffic rebounds. So couldn't they re-align these tracks better and build the passenger track they need ? Good question. Read the first paragraph. And good luck negotiating with CSX to allow these tracks to be repositioned and taken out of service.

[SimTrains]

CSX has told us in the negotiations they were willing to do whatever it took to make the high-speed thing happen. There not paying for it. Why would they care? This would all be paid for with the 8 billion set aside from federal stimulious money. We knew all along track would have to be repositioned. There's something else going on here. Something there not telling us.

[Noel Weaver]

I can remember way back in 1963 when traveling throuh Buffalo I was warned about the neighborhood around the New York
Central Station. I am sure that it isn't any better today. It is too bad because it could be a nice facility but it is far more
practical to continue using the station in Depew and the station at Exchange Street which is much closer to civilization in
Buffalo.
Noel Weaver

[Flat-Wheeler]

I can remember way back in 1963 when traveling throuh Buffalo I was warned about the neighborhood around the New York
Central Station. I am sure that it isn't any better today.

Uhh, yes, it's likely not for the better. Can you say "urban blight" ? It cannot be as innocent of a neighborhood as portrayed on Seinfeld episodes. As of 10 years ago, many of the side streets off Sycamore had gangs lining the streets peddling flower bouquets and other contraband. I think I had to explain to them thugs that the only HO i was interested in involved tiny trains ! I know from personal experience there were VA veterans using their VA beneifit checks at crack house havens in the surrounding neighborhood of Buff Term. Anything goes I guess. Better them than me.

Needless to say, I wasn't too impressed that such a nice terminal fell victim to bad surroundings.

[Flat-Wheeler]

Of course, in hindsight, I might add that I was also offered HO trains at Rochester's hot spot frequented by Otto. Nick Tahou's. Any correlation there ?!
Such is the modern day inner city, from what I've gathered.

[Otto Vondrak]

The reason that BCT wasn't "chosen" was because someone connected to the politicians wouldn't be able to make any money off of the deal, duh. M-O-N-E-Y. "There's no profit in it." No one gets a payout.

And let's not start this "Buffalo is not safe" discussion again. The discussion is about the potential use of BCT as a rail station as part of the "higher-speed" improvements to be made in New York State over the next ten years.

-otto-

[Noel Weaver]

Safe neighborhood notwithstanding, it is not really in a central location, will cost a fortune to restore as a railroad station,
cost a lot to heat and AC and to restore trackage and platforms.
You might not want to discuss safe neighborhood but if you were taking the train from that location, would you feel safe
leaving your car there for let's say a long weekend? I can already tell you, I would not. At least Depew has reasonably safe
and decent parking and is accessible.
Why spend this kind of money for a different station in just one city on this route when the money could be better spent on
track, signals, equipment and much more? Money does not "grow on trees" and only so much money will be available for
this corridor, you can't waste it.
Buffalo is in an ideal and unique situation with Amtrak in that it has two fully useable and staffed stations, not many places
with the kind of service offered in Buffalo are in this situation. It will not be to the benefit of Amtrak passengers to
change this in any way.
Noel Weaver

[goodnightjohnwayne]

The reason that BCT wasn't "chosen" was because someone connected to the politicians wouldn't be able to make any money off of the deal, duh. M-O-N-E-Y. "There's no profit in it." No one gets a payout.

I'd argue that if the State of New York spent the tens of millions, perhaps even hundreds of millions, to restore BCT, there would be far more opportunity for abuse than spending far smaller sums on improving the two active station facilities in the Buffalo area.

And let's not start this "Buffalo is not safe" discussion again. The discussion is about the potential use of BCT as a rail station as part of the "higher-speed" improvements to be made in New York State over the next ten years.

-otto-

The problem is that BCT has absolutely no potential whatsoever as part of a "highspeed rail" venture, or even as part of current Amtrak operations. The location is simply inconvenient, and as previously stated, Buffalo currently has two well located, convenient station facilities.

The great irony is that the New York Central made a grievous error in building BCT where it did, and the subsequent building of the current Exchange Street Station was a very effective confirmation of that simple fact.

In any case, it seems unlikely that any potential or improved existing station facility in Buffalo would require more than a single platform and a fairly modest facility. Look at France, and the purpose built TGV stations were all fairly utilitarian. Basically, there's no imminent need for BCT, and sadly, there probably never was any real justification for a station of that immense size in that particularly inconvenient location.

[Otto Vondrak]

I don't think I said anything about the State spending millions to restore BCT for use as a train station... I merely speculated that perhaps the reason elected officials are changing their tune is because their buddies who are private developers wont be able to get a piece of the action. Any development at BCT will happen with private capital... I think we're also misunderstanding the concept of the "higher-speed" rail being advocated by the state currently. Anyway, my point is, it's a shame for support to swing so wildly from one extreme to the other...

[terminalfanatic]

IF it was to be restored as a station the stimulus money would not be used to restore the whole entire complex. It would only be used on restoring the concourse and whatever else a paying passenger would come in contact with. Meaning a few platforms with just a couple of tracks at the far end of the train concourse.

[goodnightjohnwayne]

IF it was to be restored as a station the stimulus money would not be used to restore the whole entire complex. It would only be used on restoring the concourse and whatever else a paying passenger would come in contact with. Meaning a few platforms with just a couple of tracks at the far end of the train concourse.

I can't imagine what would be gained from reusing the now severed concourse? When you think about it, all that is required is a single platform, with a single track, at least for the current level of service. In the unlikely event that "high speed rail" dramatically increases the numbers of trains, you could simply add another track to that single platform.

I also can't imagine why Buffalo residents would wish to sacrifice either, or both, of the current, conveniently located station facilities for the sake of BCT? I also can't think of any practical reason to add a third Buffalo station stop at BCT?

Looking back, Amtrak's withdrawal from BCT back in 1979 was the right choice at the time and the closure of the facility was probably long overdue. I'm inclined to believe that if the New York Central had closed BCT when the current Exchange Street Station was built in the 1950s, the move wouldn't have been premature considering the precipitous decline in ridership. Obviously, it was a shame that this massive white elephant of a station fell into neglect and decay, but it is also worth remembering that BCT lacked any potential value that would have motivated a potential owner to at least secure the property from vandals. Much like Michigan Central Station in Detroit, Buffalo Central Terminal only survived because the municipality lacked the funds to tear it down.

The irony is that MCS seems likely to be torn down, if the funds can be found, because it did have enough value to remain in private hands, while BCT has been secured, and perhaps even stabilized, because the site was of so little value that no one could be bothered to pay the property taxes.

An additional irony is that the location of MCS was suitable enough that Amtrak built a small station in the immediate vicinity. In contrast, BCT was always in the wrong place, which is precisely why Exchange Street was rebuilt in the 1950s after having been torn down in the 1930s.

[Flat-Wheeler]

It has now been mentioned various times, the BCT was poorly situated in a bad location. However, there has yet been any mention of relocating it to a more favorable location where it is needed. To... say Lyons or Geneva ? Some people move their homes, and they aren't heavily funded.

Hey, if the ancient Aztecs and Egyptians could move their mountains of brick & block, why can't we technologically advanced Americans do something similar ?

Realistically this can't be done, & seriously speaking the subject is depressing... so I'm just having some fun entertaining the idea.