Why do LD trains not handle intra-NEC traffic?

[SouthernRailway]

Interesting (and good) point made in another thread:

Why don't Amtrak's long-distance trains handle passengers between NY and Washington (other than passengers who are continuing to or from points south of Washington)?

When I've taken the Crescent, there usually seems to be unsold capacity north of Washington; if the space is available, why doesn't Amtrak sell it? I'd much rather take a sleeping car between NY and DC if I had the option.

I believe that pre-Amtrak railroads did handle intra-NEC traffic on their long-distance trains?

Thanks.

[Tadman]

I think we once discussed this. The basics were that the railroad doesn't want to sell a NYP-PHL-WAS ticket at the expense of a ticket going all the way to Chicago or Florida.

One idea we came up with was to open up these shorthaul seats only 12-24 hours before departure. Another idea would be to leave them open for sale but price them much higher, so the revenue of a sleeper compartment NYP-WAS is the same as NYP-CIN or NYP-ATL.

Of course, your current workaround is to buy a sleeper compartment to one stop south of WAS.

[Ken W2KB]

Also, the reliability of the LD trains being on time is problematic as compared with those all or primarily under Amtrak's control.

[gprimr1]

Two Reasons

1.) It doesn't make sense to sell a ticket from NYP to PHL when the train is going to Florida. What if someone at Newark wants to go to FL?

2.) LD trains aren't as likely to be online.

[David Benton]

Once the new cars are delivered , hopefully at least one southern l.d train would be extended up to Boston(via Springfield ) . i believe there would be a market for dining service and baggage service on the NEC in that case .
But amtrak seems to want to keep the services seperate , some of the reasons staed in prior posts would influence that , but it also seems to be their mindset .

[Tadman]

Boston via Springfield? That won't happen for many reasons, quiet a few of them very good ones. You've got limited track slots on MNCR and the CT drawbridges, you've got limited traffic through Springfield and slow running on the B&A, you've got nowhere to service the train in Boston (SSYD is far better equipped to service the train). This is a non-starter.

[David Benton]

When amtrak was loking to extend one of the siver services to Boston , it was via Springfield , partly because of the bridge restrictions north of New haven on the NEC , and partly because express mail was avaliable at Springfield . one od those easons have gone ,.

[jp1822]

I think we once discussed this. The basics were that the railroad doesn't want to sell a NYP-PHL-WAS ticket at the expense of a ticket going all the way to Chicago or Florida.

One idea we came up with was to open up these shorthaul seats only 12-24 hours before departure. Another idea would be to leave them open for sale but price them much higher, so the revenue of a sleeper compartment NYP-WAS is the same as NYP-CIN or NYP-ATL.

Of course, your current workaround is to buy a sleeper compartment to one stop south of WAS.

I recall this as well. Amtrak *could* sell northbound (last minute) tickets between Richmond/Washington DC and intermediate points to NYP. This would actually be quite convenient on Sundays from Washington DC.

[ThirdRail7]

I think we once discussed this. The basics were that the railroad doesn't want to sell a NYP-PHL-WAS ticket at the expense of a ticket going all the way to Chicago or Florida.

One idea we came up with was to open up these shorthaul seats only 12-24 hours before departure. Another idea would be to leave them open for sale but price them much higher, so the revenue of a sleeper compartment NYP-WAS is the same as NYP-CIN or NYP-ATL.

Of course, your current workaround is to buy a sleeper compartment to one stop south of WAS.

I recall this as well. Amtrak *could* sell northbound (last minute) tickets between Richmond/Washington DC and intermediate points to NYP. This would actually be quite convenient on Sundays from Washington DC.

I'll see JP's opinion and raise it one. All of the reasons are valid...to a certain extent. The unreliability of the long distance trains is a main factor for both directions. Another reason they shied away from selling seats is the condition corridor passengers left the southbound trains in and the condition the northbound trains are often in when they hit the corridor.

My personal thought is this can all go away. We have the precedent and I was around for it. Take a look at the note for Train 51 on the NEC. I'd like to see a return to those days. 51 took a lot of pressure off 141.

Same for northbound departures. Train 50 (when it bothered to show up) was great at taking pressure off the NEC trains. During those times, the 7:20 originated in NPN on SUN, but eventually became a Fri/Sun train. When 50 was in the picture, it worked out well since trains weren't reserved at this time. I remember there were numerous occasions they put passengers on 40 between PHL-NYP if things were in bad shape. Typically, the Crescent and Silvers were extremely long, had complicated loading plans (they all split at one point) carried a lot of mail and had longer running times over the NEC, so they weren't used for local travel.

This is no longer the case. The Crescent and the Silvers don't have many operational considerations these days and they are 110mph trains. A few enroute cleaners and a note(similiar to the Cardinal's) could help out ....providing you can count on the reliability. Even if you can't, it barely matters. If you make the tickets available for same day reservation, the inbound is already tracked. You have an idea about how it is running.

The outbound is a little more problematic, but it is worth rolling the dice in my opinion.

Unless there is some sort of accounting or cost issue, I have always felt carrying local passengers over the corridor is worth the effort.

[hi55us]

I always felt this was a big waste of equipment by Amtrak, especially during peak periods like Thanksgiving. Amtrak should sell tickets on the LD Trains on the corridor noting that the trains are more prone to delay, but offer more leg room and a dining car. I for one would "Roll the dice" on a late train 98 for the extra leg room and the dining car...

[electricron]

You're point is valid only if Train 98 wasn't already sold out with LD passengers. But it is, there isn't any free seats during peak periods like Thanksgiving available for corridor passengers on LD trains. That's why Amtrak has the policy in the first place.

[David Benton]

leaving 360 or so days of the year when there probably is spare capacity .
I would say you would only make it avaliable for people travelling the whole distance , WAS-NYP . you wouldnt want to be picking up and dropping off passengers from every station .

[Noel Weaver]

I guess I am going to disagree with at least some of you on here on this one but putting local passengers on the long distance trains between New York and Washington makes little if any sense to me. The LD trains are slower for several reasons, their top speed is less than the Northeast Direct or Acela trains, they handle baggage and thus spend up to ten or more minutes at some station stops, the seats are assigned before you board the train i.e. you are directed where to sit, the northbound trains have been on the road for a considerable period of time and sometimes you will find various junk items such as discarded food, garbage and papers while the corridor trains are generally clean and well prepared. As for the dining cars you will find that northbound 98 arrives Washington at 7:21 AM and leaves when ready so the dining car might serve you breakfast but that would be it, their arrival in New York is scheduled before lunch. Northbound 92 arrives Washington at 3:14 PM and again departs when ready arriving at New York at 7:18 PM so I doubt if you will find the dining car available for anything as you are too close to the final destination of the train and the dining car crew has to clean up, cash out and prepare to depart the train in New York on arrival. Trains 91 and 97 would have meals but in this case corridor passenger occupying space that can and should be sold to points far south of the corridor would not be right, no passenger headed for Virginia, the Carolinas, Georgia or Florida should be denied space just so that somebody in the corridor can chose to ride these trains between New York and Washington. Even today there are a few either Acela or Northeast Direct trains leave New York or Washington behind one of the LD trains and arrive at New York or Washington ahead of them passing them enroute someplace along the way. According to the present timetable Washington - New York has 37 corridor trains that handle passengers at most major stops, this is adequate service in my opinion, leave the LD trains for LD passengers.
Noel Weaver

[electricron]

According to the present timetable Washington - New York has 37 corridor trains that handle passengers at most major stops, this is adequate service in my opinion, leave the LD trains for LD passengers. Noel Weaver

Corridor passengers have 37 trains a day to choose between, and now want to use "the" one train a day most LD passengers have to use. I'll admit Florida "Silver" service is more than once a day, but at twice a day it is still no where close to the 37 trains a day choice corridor service provides. It must be very frustrating for some corridor passengers waiting at a platform at a small station for a corridor train to see the relatively few LD trains a day fly past your station without stopping, or waiting at a larger station see LD trains stop but you can't board. But you have the luxury of waiting a half hour for your corridor train to come, we LD passengers have to wait an entire day.
p.s. You can even board these train if you were going further south than D.C. - it's not like you can never board them. And you'll be happy and thankful to be able to use the facilities LD trains have not being crowded out by corridor passengers.

[mtuandrew]

Would it be possible or feasible to add a couple of A-1s to each southbound LD for intra-Corridor traffic, drop them at Washington, and send the cars north again on a regularly scheduled Regional? Southbound, the LDs have a dearth of capacity but a fairly consistent schedule. Meanwhile, there seems to be spare capacity on the northbound LDs past WAS, but they are frequently delayed coming off the connecting lines. For those concerned about Corridor passengers clogging the diner, restrict it to passengers booked beyond WAS, and make baggage service receive-only until after WAS.