Amtrak adds Acela RT - Nightly Premium Service

[Arlington]

I wish they would extend #2122 to Boston as #2174 because as stated above, a 7pm last Acela stinks. I honestly believe an 800pm departure out of NYP would produce good numbers since #178 leaves at 745pm and stops everywhere, reaching Bos shortly after midnight.

A good idea, but we'd need something back. For all Arlington and Afigatts numbers, 2175 isn't really desirable. That train is a throw away for balancing 2128.
My prediction is eventually 2128 will make a stop at MET and 2175 will make a stop at BWI. Otherwise, I see them tanking (except on MON and FRI) and dragging 198 down with them just like before.

When was "before?" (I'm curious because of the interactions with the air markets, and worried that 2175 will cost more than expected if they've modeled it based on that +91% in BOS-PHL that I think is going away starting May 2013).

[ThirdRail7]

When was "before?" (I'm curious because of the interactions with the air markets, and worried that 2175 will cost more than expected if they've modeled it based on that +91% in BOS-PHL that I think is going away starting May 2013).

They've played with late night high end trains for years. They've added them, they've taken them off, they've reinstated them, rescheduled them. The last "late night" premium train I recall was around 2005ish. Unless you cut the price for late night service, they really only attract business travelers. The fares are prohibitive to the average person, especially when you have another train shadowing. As such, you're not going to see that much impact with 2175, especially if it skips BWI and/or MET. That late at night, people are trying to get to their cars. That's where the RTE,MET,BWI and NCR thrive. This is why when the last attempt at an 8pm WAS departure was attempted, it stopped EVERYWHERE.

Speaking of which, it is all about 2128. It closes the huge gap between "I just missed the 7:10P" and the next train is 845p. I might as well have another drink. Washington is not NYP. They tend to leave town earlier, which is why the previous 8pm departures didn't work that well. The price is too high for the casual traveler and most of the business travelers are long gone. Even the ones who have a late dinner are generally done in time for the 7pm. This train will drain the usage of 198, the 845p which carries a respectable load. With the exception of MON and FRI, you're looking at taking a well used train 198 (under duress in some cases) and operating two lightly used trains out of Was. As for 2175, I'm not seeing too much NYP travel with 187 right on its heels. It is stopped at MET or BWI, I could see capturing additional BOS riders.

[Acela Express]

It's good to see the company is trying to bring back 2175 out of NYP and start 2128 outta WAS. If some of you remember 2175 was one of the first acela trains scheduled when the service started. It's was 2150 WAS -BOS and 2175 BOS - WAS. The train did pretty good with the passengers. I can tell you by experience a lot of travelers were very upset when the service stopped. They were forced to transfer from 2193 to 187 at NYP if they were going south of penn station. But if 2193 was late and you missed 187 at 905 your next amtrak option was 177 at 1005. That didn't sit well with business travelers or leisure travelers. So this may help bring back some of the business that was lost. 2128 will most likely do much better but I will say that an added TRE stop would help.

[Patrick Boylan]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/dr- ... la-routes/

When I get around to it I should register and comment at washington post. Their headline's wrong, as well as this thread's faithfully copied title. Amtrak's adding a pair of Acela trains on an existing Acela route.

[Arlington]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/dr- ... la-routes/

[...]Their headline's wrong, as well as this thread's faithfully copied title. Amtrak's adding a pair of Acela trains on an existing Acela route.

Agreed. I've asked the moderators to rename this thread to "Acela After 7pm (Late Premium NEC)"

[Arlington]

Here's an update that captures some of the refinements that people have added to the understanding of the two new trips:

WEEKDAY NORTHBOUND

Acela 2126 Dp WAS 7:00p Ar NYP 9:48p
NEReg 188 Dp WAS 7:10p Ar NYP 10:34p
Acela 2128 Dp WAS 8:00p Ar NYP 10:45p *New (Target market)
NEReg 198 Dp WAS 8:45p Ar NYP 12:10a
NEReg 66 Dp WAS 10:00p Ar NYP 1:50a

WEEKDAY SOUTHBOUND

Acela 2173 Dp NYP 8:20p Ar WAS 11:10p
NEReg 187 Dp NYP 9:05p Ar WAS 12:25a *Current
Acela 2175 Dp NYP 9:15p Ar WAS 11:59p *New (Balancing trip)
NEReg 187 Dp NYP 9:20p Ar WAS 12:35a *After Change
NEReg 177 Dp NYP 10:05p Ar WAS 1:25a
NEReg 67 Dp NYP 3:00a Ar WAS 6:57a

I do see that later at night, extracting a premium from people works better if you can get them to their cars sooner, not to city centers. So it does seem like 2175 should stop at BWI and New Carrollton (a half hour earlier than new 187 can get them there) and 2128 should stop at MET (an hour earlier than 198 can get them there). Could 2128 go all the way to ROC and STM and turn back to NYP or the yards from there? It seems ideal to make lots of "parked car" stops at the far end of a late express run.

[ThirdRail7]

Could 2128 go all the way to ROC and STM and turn back to NYP or the yards from there? It seems ideal to make lots of "parked car" stops at the far end of a late express run.

In theory, if you got another crew and Metro-North allowed it. However, that seems like a waste. If you're going through all of the trouble of entering the territory, you might as well run it to NHV at least and turn it there. This would mirror the old NHV Metroliner service (205-222.) The problem with that service is it only affected through passengers. No one wanted to pay the premium fee from NWK-NYP, especially with Metro-North nearby. As such, they made it an unreserved train from NYP-NHV. Then, NWK started complaining about hte same thing. So, they made it unreserved from NWK-NHV.

Then, they cut the train entirely. However, that was years ago. If they were to try this, I wouldn't pick 2128. I would pick 2122 or 2124 at the extreme outside.

[Tadman]

That's an interesting concept in principle. I've always wondered how many corridor passengers live on the other side of town and would choose train over car if they could get closer service. The example of CT-based suburbanites is one of the best. If the first Acela out left from Stamford and the last one back went through to Stamford, what's your ridership gain?

[Arlington]

That's an interesting concept in principle. I've always wondered how many corridor passengers live on the other side of town and would choose train over car if they could get closer service. The example of CT-based suburbanites is one of the best. If the first Acela out left from Stamford and the last one back went through to Stamford, what's your ridership gain?

I see this as analogous both to how the SNCF rolled the initial "home from Paris" TGVs beyond Lyon (c.1993) to the slow-track hinterlands as far away as Switzerland, and how the Virginia hinterlands south of WAS have done a good job of filling trains north of WAS (even with an engine change).

I like the idea of redefining the "Southern Half" of Acela to include more single-seat WAS-NYP-NHV. There are a lot of rich, drive-to-the-station types out there who'd appreciate a one seat ride from WAS or PHL to their car:
Westchester County (NRO), pop ~950k
Fairfield County (STM), pop. ~920k
New Haven County (NHV), pop. ~900k

That's nearly 3 million people (the size of Baltimore only richer and closer to the stations) who would really, really, appreciate a shorter trip, a single seat, and time to just soak up the free wifi at the end of the day.

[Suburban Station]

Here's an update that captures some of the refinements that people have added to the understanding of the two new trips:

WEEKDAY NORTHBOUND

Acela 2126 Dp WAS 7:00p Ar NYP 9:48p
NEReg 188 Dp WAS 7:10p Ar NYP 10:34p
Acela 2128 Dp WAS 8:00p Ar NYP 10:45p *New (Target market)
NEReg 198 Dp WAS 8:45p Ar NYP 12:10a
NEReg 66 Dp WAS 10:00p Ar NYP 1:50a

WEEKDAY SOUTHBOUND

Acela 2173 Dp NYP 8:20p Ar WAS 11:10p
NEReg 187 Dp NYP 9:05p Ar WAS 12:25a *Current
Acela 2175 Dp NYP 9:15p Ar WAS 11:59p *New (Balancing trip)
NEReg 187 Dp NYP 9:20p Ar WAS 12:35a *After Change
NEReg 177 Dp NYP 10:05p Ar WAS 1:25a
NEReg 67 Dp NYP 3:00a Ar WAS 6:57a

I do see that later at night, extracting a premium from people works better if you can get them to their cars sooner, not to city centers. So it does seem like 2175 should stop at BWI and New Carrollton (a half hour earlier than new 187 can get them there) and 2128 should stop at MET (an hour earlier than 198 can get them there). Could 2128 go all the way to ROC and STM and turn back to NYP or the yards from there? It seems ideal to make lots of "parked car" stops at the far end of a late express run.

provided the trip sells at one of the lower buckets, this is a great northbound addition for the PHL-WAS market

[TomNelligan]

That's an interesting concept in principle. I've always wondered how many corridor passengers live on the other side of town and would choose train over car if they could get closer service.

I agree... you'd expect that New Rochelle and Stamford would generate some Acela ridership to/from Philadelphia and points south with an additional early morning or late evening trip, especially with all the corporate offices within walking distance of the Stamford station. But in addition to the need to negotiate slots with Metro-North, I believe that extending a Washington-New York train beyond Penn Station would incur the cost of an additional operating crew, since engineers and conductors don't work through between the ex-PRR and ex-NH territories.

[M&Eman]

That's an interesting concept in principle. I've always wondered how many corridor passengers live on the other side of town and would choose train over car if they could get closer service.

I agree... you'd expect that New Rochelle and Stamford would generate some Acela ridership to/from Philadelphia and points south with an additional early morning or late evening trip, especially with all the corporate offices within walking distance of the Stamford station. But in addition to the need to negotiate slots with Metro-North, I believe that extending a Washington-New York train beyond Penn Station would incur the cost of an additional operating crew, since engineers and conductors don't work through between the ex-PRR and ex-NH territories.

While an extension of certain late night corridor trains to New Haven might make sense, operationally it would be hard to do, between MNRR trackage rights, eqiupment balancing, and operating cost.

[Gilbert B Norman]

I'm certain there are cogent reasons not readilly visible to the railfan community and as such I shall defer to Mr. Third Rail, but one must wonder why existing BOS-NYP #2193 could not be extended to WAS roundly on the proposed 2175 schedule. Presently 2193 leaves BOS 520P arrives NYP 905P. There would likely have to be a little "juggling" in order to allow more than ten minutes of station time at NYP.

Equipment arriving NYP on proposed 2128 would protect whatever 2193 previously protected; equipment would remain "balanced".

I'm sure this was considered; they ain't dum-dums @ 60 Mass; I knew enough of 'em along the way to affirm such is the case.

[Arlington]

MNRR trackage rights, eqiupment balancing, and operating cost.

Since these are off-peak trains full of Connecticut voters that we're talking about, can we expect the MNRR to be less concerned operationally and more disposed politically?

[ryanch]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/dr- ... la-routes/

When I get around to it I should register and comment at washington post. Their headline's wrong, as well as this thread's faithfully copied title. Amtrak's adding a pair of Acela trains on an existing Acela route.

I did click through incredulously, wondering if they were somehow routing Acelas to Harrisburg or Newport News.