Illinois Amtrak Service

[ryanch]

>I really wish there were a city the size of MKE or DET at the other end of every route.

I sometimes wonder whether Memphis is ripe for an extension of an Illini or Saluki. It's another 210 miles from Carbondale. The City of New Orleans times in Memphis are horrible, and it still seems to get 50 people boarding per train. (ie, 70,000/year "boarding and detraining" = about 200/day, so 100 who are boarding, divided by 2 trains.) Of course, roughly half of those are to/from destinations south that wouldn't be served by an extension.

But when you look at the Tennessee Amtrak stats page, it would seem that there are more people getting on/off in Memphis than passing through -- 70,000 boarding and detraining vs. 66,000 who passed through and boarded or detrained elsewhere. (https://www.railpassengers.org/site/ass ... 215/tn.pdf)

And the top two city pairs are Memphis-New Orleans and Memphis-Chicago.

That makes it seem like the two corridors have more vitality than the through-route, which seems to suggest that if it's worth running the CONO, it might be worth running a 2nd train Chgo-Memphis, given you're only extending, not paying for a whole new train.

Obviously, I don't know the finances, and I would think it would only make sense if a) the state of Tennessee wanted it enough to pay; b) it could be done with existing equipment.

The two corridor trains are scheduled for 5 hour runs Chgo-Carbondale; and the City of New Orleans takes 4.5-5 between Carbondale and Memphis. But those are scheduled times. Delays could cascade pretty quickly. So something like this might require c) trackwork north of Carbondale where 3/day makes that worthwhile, to improve run-times and give a bigger buffer.

[Tadman]

Memphis isn't a bad idea, I travel there a few times per year for work.

I actually don't mind the schedule. I get on the train after dinner, and I arrive in Memphis for breakfast. You can literally do a same-day turn around and have plenty of time entertain customers or visit the steel mills out in Arkansas. It's really useful.

[electricron]

The City of New Orleans existing schedule would work far better than a reverse schedule. Here is why!
Let’s review a few facts; (1) it’s ~535 miles Chicago to Memphis and ~ 400 miles Memphis to New Orleans, (2) it’s a night train Chicago to Memphis and a day train Memphis to New Orleans (either direction), and last (3) there are two round trip IL-DOT subsidized day trains Chicago to Carbondale, and no other trains at all between Memphis to New Orleans.
Questions to consider; (1) would a night train between Memphis and New Orleans attract more passengers in Mississippi than a day train, and (2) whether an additional day train is needed between Chicago and Carbondale? I believe the answer would be no for either question. So adding an additional long distance train reversed in time to the existing train does not make any sense.

The last issue to address discussed earlier is whether Tennessee should subsidize an extension to an existing IL-DOT subsidized train. Of the ~535 miles between Chicago and Memphis, just ~100 miles is within Tennessee. Assuming the existing IL-DOT subsidized trains maintain their existing schedules in Illinois, the trains would arrive and depart Memphis ~5 hours displaced from Carbondale. So the departure times would be 2:30am and 11:15am; and the arrival times would be 6:46pm and 3:35am.
I’ll admit it is difficult to figure out how many additional train sets it would require. Obviously the southbound early train Chicago to Carbondale would reach Memphis at 6:46 pm, but to be the early train northbound to Chicago it would have to leave Memphis at 2:30 am (not good), and just the opposite occurs being the late train (just as bad).
Let’s face some realities, the extension is just not going to work without completely messing up the existing Illini and Saluki train schedules.

[GWoodle]

Mr. Benton, the slang of "dead" for a crew whose time has expired under the Hours of Service Law means just that. They cannot handle anything, such as allowing a Rules Qualified host road "pilot" the train. It does not mean operate the train to the next siding, as they are DEAD.

Fortunately, in the airline industry, an "expired" pilot will fly the aircraft to is next scheduled landing, then "die".

I would think the "dead" or "dying" crew would have time to stop then tie up their train at the last station. They do not wait for the 12hours to be up. Just like a freight crew have time to turn on hand brakes on the cars so that nothing can move. Then get a car taxi to get the dead crew to town or something. No waiting for the new "live" crew. This should happen in town so that passengers are not stranded in the middle of nowhere. A train crippled because of an accident or a dead loco is a little different.

In a way I don't know why this is in an Illinois Amtrak Service thread. We are not talking about the sometimes re-route of the Eagle over UP-MP-C&EI track or Zephyr re-route on UP-C&NW track. Seems to me Amtrak makes provision to get qualified crew to wherever needed then add pilot crew from host railroad & or extra freight loco to meet required signal needs. We may not know all the details if Amtrak pays the host RR something for these "extra moves". We may not always hear what happens if the Empire Builder is stuck due to snow cold somewhere Montana Dakota & the passengers bused into town emergency shelter & cared for until bustitution arrives.

[John_Perkowski]

So the on time percentage of the Illini made the Chicago Tribune

Two of Amtrak’s Illinois routes are among the worst-performing in the country, a new report shows

[Tadman]

So the on time percentage of the Illini made the Chicago Tribune

Two of Amtrak’s Illinois routes are among the worst-performing in the country, a new report shows

This is why I advocate for Class 1's to provide power and crews for trains. You can bet they'd move the trains a lot faster if they foot the bill for extra crews and equipment caused by lateness.

[Arborwayfan]

This is sad, because 20 years ago the Illini had great OTP. I lived in Champaign for two years and spent a lot of time on the university campus for four years after that in the late 90s, and I could hear the trains whistle off the platform, and they were regular. I rode them to Chicago enough to know that they nearly always got into Chicago more or less on time even when they were a little late into Champaign-Urbana. IC and early CN apparently treated them a lot better than CN does now. The last couple times I took the northbound Illini we got put into a siding behind a freight to meet an oncoming train, and then backed out of the siding to pass the freight. I'm not sure if the problem is the line just operating almost at maximum capacity, or if the railroad has told the dispatchers to favor the freights (ex., by sending a freight one siding further than they really should before getting in the clear for Amtrak and an oncoming train).

[Arlington]

The Illini's Carbondale is too small to terminate a route. The Saluki/Illini, like the Namib river never reaching the sea, peters out in the desert.

Jackson County (58k) + Williamson County (67k) = 125k people. That's not enough to anchor a route.

I predict an extension of both to Memphis--exactly the sort of corridorification of LDs that Anderson should be imagining-- which would add about 1.4m in population to the route would pay for itself by making demand bi-directional. They should do it with or without Tennessee's cooperation (maybe Memphis would cooperate even if TN wouldn't)

SOUTHBOUND
(Saluki Extended)
Dp CHI 8:15a
Ar MEM 6:45p

Retimed Illini
Dp CHI 12:05p
Ar MM 10:35p

CONO
Dp CHI 8:05p
Ar MEM 6:27am


NORTHBOUND

(Saluki Retimed)
Dp MEM 5:30a
Ar CHI 4:00p

Extended Illini
Dp MEM 11:15a
Ar CHI 9:45p

CONO
Dp MEM 10:40p
Ar CHI 9:20a

[CHTT1]

1. Carbondale is a perfectly fine place to terminate a train. It's the home of Southern Illinois University, a major passenger generator.

2. Have Kentucky and Tennessee shown any interest at all in paying for an extended Illini/Saluki. I think not.

3. Extending the trains would give CN more opportunity to run them even later.

[Tadman]

Usually I agree with corridorization moves but Memphis might be a bit too far. Not only are endpoints important, but equipment and crew turns are, too. I predict (without looking at a map) that Memphis is a town too far and would require far more crews and cars.

Carbondale is not as bad as it seems given the University.

And if you really want to make a sense as a corridor, truncate to Champaign and run a bus shuttle to Carbondale.

[Arlington]

Isn't the terrible economic performance plain enough evidence that the current route has insufficient demand (despite/including whatever SIU may contribute)?

SIU probably generates sufficient demand only on Fridays, Sundays, and term departure/return days-- probably 60 days a year.

And to the extent SIU demand can be captured, I'd guess 1/3 of it is South of Carbondale, since SIU offers in state tuition to KY, TN, & AR residents, for whom MEM access is important.

[CHTT1]

The Tribune story refers to the trains' terrible on time performance, not economic. I place the blame totally on CN's handling of the trains, not to mention the wheel count requirement. For a "precision" railroad, CN seems to have a problem running anytime on time.

[daybeers]

CN needs to run the trains on time before any plans are made for extending the route. How do we do that? Not sure.

[mtuandrew]

CN needs to run the trains on time before any plans are made for extending the route. How do we do that? Not sure.

I’d say copious amounts of money would change it, but that hasn’t protected the big shippers from the cold embrace of PSR. That leaves Federal legislation and a much smaller set of grants.

[eolesen]

SIU probably generates sufficient demand only on Fridays, Sundays, and term departure/return days-- probably 60 days a year.

And to the extent SIU demand can be captured, I'd guess 1/3 of it is South of Carbondale, since SIU offers in state tuition to KY, TN, & AR residents, for whom MEM access is important.

SIU only has about 13,000 students including grad programs and I’d guess fewer than 1/3 have ties north of I-74...

Given it is a six hour trip each way, and doesn’t really connect well to Metra time-wise, I don’t think there’s a whole lot of demand on Friday/Sunday... arguably there’s some demand for Thanksgiving weekend and Spring Break, and term start/stop as you said.


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