EMD on the CIE

[philipmartin]

These don't look like GM EMD locos, but they sure sound them. The handle on the horn cords are EMD style.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kvPXMKhaYgg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[dowlingm]

The EMD12-645 071 class (111 class in Northern Ireland)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xdNvbGt-2Yw" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xdNvbGt-2Yw" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

and EMD12-710 201 class
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DUlNhJHsXgk" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SY_CudWnLb4" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
remain in active service.

The 071 is almost exclusively freight/permanent way now, with only the occasional passenger charter, since they are not wired for pushpull as required by both the CAF Mark 4 and De Dietrich Enterprise consists.

[george matthews]

After Irish independance the new government realised that importing coal from Britain had to be paid for in their new currency. There were experiments in using Ireland's main native fuel. Peat was burned in their steam locomotives. That is a fuel less suitable than solid black coal. Locomotives needed to refuel more often than with coal. But at least it did not need to be paid for in British currency.

But they also began to electrify with the main power source being water from the main river, Shannon. Not a lot of electrification was applied to the railways. Only the semi-suburban lines north and south of Dublin have been electrified.

[philipmartin]

Interesting comments and videos. That 141 class (I guess) in my video has dual controls in the cab, so the driver can sit on either side, apparently.

[NH2060]

The 071 is almost exclusively freight/permanent way now, with only the occasional passenger charter, since they are not wired for pushpull as required by both the CAF Mark 4 and De Dietrich Enterprise consists.

IIRC there were only 3 of them in use by NIR and 1 or 2 of them were used with a consist of 6-8 former "Gatwick Express" coaches that were fitted with Irish/broad gauge bogies. And I believe that set was set to be retired with the arrival of the 4000 Class DMUs (which were mainly meant to replace older DMU stock that had been given a temporary facelift).

[dowlingm]

The Gatwicks were a scandal. Refitted including regauging at significant expense and mated to a similarly expensively reworked Mark 2 DBSO (cab car), but spent their time "in reserve" and were finally scrapped. The 111s were supposed to have gotten push pull but I've never seen much confirmation of that - now that the Enterprise fleet has gotten HEP generator cars in theory a 111 (which has no onboard HEP) could push if they are in fact so fitted.

The 3000 and 4000 classes replaced the 80 and 450 class DEMUs of which a few are left to allow Sandite to be spread.

[Martin Baumann]

The normal EMD 27 pin MU cable is used for all push-pull operations on Irish Rail. What needed to be added was a parking brake and door controls. No 071/111 got these, 206 to 209 plus 215 to 234 and all the 121s except 121 and 125 got this equipment.

The Gatwick coaches certainly are a scandal. They were generally used for two runs a day Monday to Friday totalling under 100 miles with only occasional weekend use for sports specials. It was decided to convert the set to pushpull operation and purchase an ex British Rail driving trailer. (Cab Car) This vehicle was refurbished by a company (control stand from a retired 141 Class fitted) in England who delivered it 14 months late on contract at a cost of £400,000. It arrived in Belfast June 26 2009. The Gatwick coaches had been take out of service, as it later turned out permanently, 8 days before that. The Cab Car never left the Depot until it was taken on a truck to the Downpatrick Museum line in September last year. The three 111 Class locomotives never got push-pull equipment. 111 and 112 did have HEP fitted in 1991 but it was unreliable and seldom used.

The 450 Class DEMU have never been used in Sandite service. The remaining 80 Class used for this will be replaced by a multi purpose vehicle due for delivery in July 2016

The Gatwick coaches have not been scrapped and are now owned by the Railway Preservation Society of Ireland but will need major work to make them operational.

[David Benton]

I believe CIE are also scrapping BR type MK3 carriages , which also seems a waste to me.

[Martin Baumann]

Correct. The vast majority have been scrapped. Three have gone to a museum (Moyasta, County Clare). Two have been kept to be converted to weedspray cars. Eleven have been bought by the Belmond company for a luxury tourist train operation starting next year. They are currently being rebuilt in Scotland. Retired 216 and 225 are being rebuilt by CIE to operate these trains.

Four of the Generator Vans (HEP Cars in US parlance) have been converted to run with the cross-border Diedietrich coaches. Since they entered service in 1997 the HEP was provided by the 201 Class locomotives 710 engine, despite EMD advice that this would likely overload the engines , which it frequently did. Since Fall 2012 these trains run with the converted mk3 van and failures are fewer but Inchicore shops in Dublin standards are not what they were. 206 emerged from a major overhaul last month and had a traction motor fire on its first run. 208 came back from a major overhaul last week and failed in service twice in three days

CIE did try to sell the mk3s to train operators in England but the cost of modification for standard gauge and certification proved too much. (Because the CIE automatic door design was not used on English mk3s they would have counted as "new" vehicles requiring a complex and expensive approval process)

[dowlingm]

Martin Baumann - hadn't heard about the MPV, I thought the plan was converting the 450s once the 80s fell apart. Thanks for the update.

My understanding is that other issues with the Mark 3s for continued Irish service were:
1. they all had non accessible non retention toilets
2. the airconditioned sets were not wired for pushpull and had no cab cars in a railway turning its face against running around and in which wyeing is almost unknown (feasible at Limerick Junction and Belfast only I think)
3. the pushpull sets had no airconditioning because the generator in the cab car didn't provide enough power and the cab cars were speed limited in push mode
4. even if the Mark 3s were refitted to accessible/pushpull/aircon they would need a pushpull 201 which might mean having to refit some of the stored 201s.

It's a pity - I always found them a great ride, those BT22 bogies were very forgiving on slack maintained track which was shown up when the Mark 4s appeared and it is only now that UIC60 is being laid on 100mph stretches.

Given the shocking length of time it took between designating the Mark 3 generator cars and actually putting them into daily Enterprise service after refit to pushpull I'd hate to think what time and money would have been dropped on a full Mark 3 fleet rebuild. At this point even Mark 4 sets are parked for cost reasons since the banks were bailed out and austerity rode into town.

[Martin Baumann]

At one point only three mk4 sets were rostered and that only at peak times. It is currently five, mostly out all day. The ride quality on these coaches has always been poor. Two weeks ago 215 plus mk4 took me from Heuston to Portlaoise. I was in the first coach right next to the loco and it was quite rough, exacerbated by being next to the loco but it is still poor anywhere in the set.

You could wye a train using the Lavistown junctions near Kilkenny if needed but this option has never been used as far as I know. IR once sent a pushpull from Dublin to Belfast to turn it round the right way after it had been turned on a GAA special which went one way via Limerick Junction and the other way via the avoiding line

[dowlingm]

Martin: good point about Lavistown. Like yourself I've never seen or heard of it done there.

It will be interesting to see what the long term future of the EMD fleet is. IE and NIR are fortunate that lots of 645s and 710s are still running around North America so parts are not yet a critical problem (although I have heard an odd murmur about some sort of re-engining programme).

[Martin Baumann]

The 071s, but not the 111s, had their engines upgraded from 12-645E3B to 12-645E3C between 1989 and 1995. This included a new turbocharger, new cylinder heads and new pistons and liners. The 071s will be 40 years old next year and I have my doubts that re-engining would be economic. These days there are usually two or three being used for spare parts, though so far those that have been have eventually returned to service; 087 came back into use in March after 4 and a half years! 076 has not run for two years but is now being worked on.

[dowlingm]

Preserved 121 class member 134 restarted for the first time in a while
https://www.facebook.com/RPSIDublin/vid ... 453481454/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[philipmartin]

EMD in Ireland: maybe someday we'll have a photo of an E6 leaving Dublin. http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-gkUmPM-jMWA/T ... 3.ashx.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
If my memory serves me correctly, that's a Lynn Westcott photo.