Pre-Amtrak first class travel

[SouthernRailway]

Out of curiosity, what would a first class passenger on a pre-Amtrak passenger train often get, other than a larger seat or a roomette/bedroom? Pre-boarding, meals included, or anything else?

Also, was a "parlor car" anything other than a business class or first class coach?

[Ken S.]

I have to dig out a book I got at Borders called Travel By Pullman that has a chapter on how Pullman ran things. One thing I do recall was the traveler returning from New York to the DC area on a B&O sleeper that was set-out enroute. Amtrak clearly doesn't offer this service anymore.

[matthewsaggie]

I suggest that you Google "parlor car" there are some nice images there- it was a heck of a lot more then a "business class coach".

[jonnhrr]

Many trains on what we now call the NEC had parlor cars which had individual rotating seats, much more luxurious than today's business class. They may have also had at your seat beverage service, that I am not sure of as I was in college at the time and such travel was out of my reach.

You can actually experience this though if you ride on the Essex CT steam train as they run the former NH heavyweight parlor "Great Republic" which allows one to get a taste of what first class was like back then.

Jon

[dt_rt40]

Somewhat related question which I couldn't find in any archive: from all indications, "Compartment cars" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passenger_ ... l%29#Coach) were typical on European trains < 1950, at least for first class. Any historical drama I've ever seen, and I've seen a lot, usually features this seating arrangement on European and English trains of the pre-War period. Two recent examples being the 2nd Sherlock Holmes movie, and Downton Abbey. As late as Scotland in the early 1990s I saw them being used on a train, but not a train I was taking...I think they are seldom used anymore though. But my impression is these were never as common on American trains - is that true?

LOL at the thought of Amtrak reintroducing this as a super-first class Acela service: "it's such a bother to wait behind other people to get off the train. I'd much rather have my own door!" From the Acelas I saw for years leaving Union station when I had an office with a view of K Tower, Amtrak has NO problem selling out first class as it is.

[amm in ny]

from all indications, "Compartment cars" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passenger_ ... l%29#Coach) were typical on European trains < 1950, at least for first class.

When I lived in Europe, compartment cars (cars with compartments with 3-facing-3 or 4-facing-4 seating, entered from a side corridor) were pretty much standard everywhere I went for all classes of travel. Some of the local trains had "sections" (2-facing-2 seating on either side of a center aisle.) And the fancy new trains had open seating, similar to Amtrak. But that was 30 years ago.

"it's such a bother to wait behind other people to get off the train. I'd much rather have my own door!"

I never saw compartments with an outside door, except in the movies. It strikes me as a safety hazard, like the open platforms on 19th century trains.

But my impression is these were never as common on American trains

Never heard of it for coaches.

[JimBoylan]

Some of the English trains with individual side doors for each compartment had no corridors.
Chicago, South Shore & South Bend RR had MU cars with an enclosed Pullman style smoking compartment at one end, with the corridor on the side of the car at that end. Non-smokers had ordinary coach seats in the rest of the car.

[shlustig]

Parlor-car service -- whether Pullman or railroad -- usually meant individual swivel chairs and a porter -attendant who would cater to the passengers' needs. There were various seating arrangements and combinations based on the traffic demand. Some cars had 1 or 2 compartments which could be reserved for groups and used for meetings en route. Some cars had lounge accomodations and a small galley. Some cars were parlor-observations.

For sleeper service, accomodations included roomettes, duplex roomettes, single or double bedrooms, compartments, drawing rooms, bedroom suites,and -- on a few premier trains -- master bedrooms. Premier trains often had separate lounges and diners for 1st class passengers. Each sleeping car had an assigned porter who handled luggage, assisted the passengers, provided a shoe shine, and could assist in delivering meals from the diner to the accomodation.

IMHO, Amtrak doesn't even come close to offering equivalent services.

[Jersey_Mike]

For sleeper service, accomodations included roomettes, duplex roomettes, single or double bedrooms, compartments, drawing rooms, bedroom suites,and -- on a few premier trains -- master bedrooms. Premier trains often had separate lounges and diners for 1st class passengers. Each sleeping car had an assigned porter who handled luggage, assisted the passengers, provided a shoe shine, and could assist in delivering meals from the diner to the accomodation.

And to keep things easy for the passengers all of the porters were named George.

IMHO, Amtrak doesn't even come close to offering equivalent services.

That's because those persons that could afford such service now own their own private jets (or railcars).

[Ken W2KB]

For sleeper service, accomodations included roomettes, duplex roomettes, single or double bedrooms, compartments, drawing rooms, bedroom suites,and -- on a few premier trains -- master bedrooms. Premier trains often had separate lounges and diners for 1st class passengers. Each sleeping car had an assigned porter who handled luggage, assisted the passengers, provided a shoe shine, and could assist in delivering meals from the diner to the accomodation.

And to keep things easy for the passengers all of the porters were named George.

IMHO, Amtrak doesn't even come close to offering equivalent services.

That's because those persons that could afford such service now own their own private jets (or railcars).

Or fly airline first class without having to use frequent flyer status to upgrade.

[ExCon90]

Long-distance coaches in Britain dating from before the war often had an outside door for each compartment; I rode in one from London to Aberdeen between Christmas and New Year's in the 50s (it was the 2nd relief portion of the train, when British Railways did the equivalent of "cleaning out Sunnyside" to run extra sections -- that was when you got to see the older equipment), but AFAIK all postwar long-distance cars had outside doors opening only onto the corridors. There were plenty of suburban coaches running around through the 1970s at least, referred to as "slam-door" stock. The main advantage was the ability to empty out a commuter train in less than a minute at the destination terminal. It was necessary for those standing on the platform to keep their wits about them when a train arrived, as the usual custom was for the first passenger detraining from each compartment to stand with one foot on the running board of the moving train, holding the door open (they were hinged, and opened outward), ready to literally "hit the ground running." They were great for minimizing dwell time, but somewhat wanting in structural strength because of all those doors. They have since been phased out, I think for that reason, and the last of the slam-door stock operated some years ago. Much the same took place on the Continent. On long-distance cars, enclosed compartments are being gradually replaced by open seating, either airplane style or face-to-face.

[Ken S.]

Long-distance coaches in Britain dating from before the war often had an outside door for each compartment; I rode in one from London to Aberdeen between Christmas and New Year's in the 50s (it was the 2nd relief portion of the train, when British Railways did the equivalent of "cleaning out Sunnyside" to run extra sections -- that was when you got to see the older equipment), but AFAIK all postwar long-distance cars had outside doors opening only onto the corridors. There were plenty of suburban coaches running around through the 1970s at least, referred to as "slam-door" stock. The main advantage was the ability to empty out a commuter train in less than a minute at the destination terminal. It was necessary for those standing on the platform to keep their wits about them when a train arrived, as the usual custom was for the first passenger detraining from each compartment to stand with one foot on the running board of the moving train, holding the door open (they were hinged, and opened outward), ready to literally "hit the ground running." They were great for minimizing dwell time, but somewhat wanting in structural strength because of all those doors. They have since been phased out, I think for that reason, and the last of the slam-door stock operated some years ago. Much the same took place on the Continent. On long-distance cars, enclosed compartments are being gradually replaced by open seating, either airplane style or face-to-face.

Why am I getting pictures of the coaches from Thomas the Tank Engine in my head?

[jbvb]

I rode compartment (slam-door) EMUs out of London's Euston station in 1984 or so; they provided most of the commuter service. You had to reach out the window to turn the door knob to get out, which slowed me down the first time - luckily I was reverse-commuting. Loco-hauled (Mk III if I recall correctly) compartment coaches with similar doors may be found in regular service on at least the Keighley & Worth Valley preserved line, and probably most others. I recall compartment coaches in commuter service around Hanover in Germany about 1993, but I haven't seen anything similar in service in this century.

[george matthews]

First class compartments could be found on the Bournemouth line until about 6 years ago. These trains were designed about 20 years ago during British Rail days, mainly because of an extension of the third rail electric to Weymouth. The trains were replaced by trains with more seats (and no bar).

Outside doors went a long time ago but I remember them from the 1950s.

[David Benton]

slam door stock commuter stock lasted till the 90's in England . i think the main issue with them was that they tended to seperate from the chasis in a simulated crash , and ride up over the carriage in front .
Structual strenght due to the doors may also have been an issue , but the seperation issue was what saw them off , and i think caused preservation outfits to have to do major work to use them on excursions .