Railroad Forums 

  • What's important for the disabled and variously impaired

  • General discussion of passenger rail systems not otherwise covered in the specific forums in this category, including high speed rail.
General discussion of passenger rail systems not otherwise covered in the specific forums in this category, including high speed rail.

Moderators: mtuandrew, gprimr1

 #1466340  by Myrtone
 
Many of you will know about the Americans with Disabilities Act and maybe its equivalents elsewhere in the world. There are certain requirements that a transit vehicle needs to meet in order to comply with that act. But is that act enough, or do rail transport operators, in particular, need encouragement to do better, and cater more for the disabled than is required by law?

According to this blog entry, the A.D.A requires level boarding. But that may not be enough. Apparently it is preferable for the disabled, at least in street transit, for there to be no steps anywhere in the floor area, and in case of (street running) light rail, that means 100% low floor. This way, the wheelchair bound, those with walking frames and even able-bodied people with strollers (like prams and shopping trolleys) and heavy items, don't have to worry about where the low floor area is.

Entrance doors need to be painted in different color from the main exterior scheme. For example, if the main scheme is white, black is the best color for entrance doors, including any door for both entrance and exit. Most rail vehicles with stepless entrances also have sliding doors, most often outward fold and slide doors on newer ones. In this case, the should be two audible warnings:
*A continuous tone at least 3 seconds long before the door opens or in case of button operated doors, before it becomes openable.
*A pulsated tone at least three seconds long before the door begins to close.
This should apply for any door for entry, exit or both.

Destination blinds must have characters contrasting with the background and the display must at least be capable of being illuminated. By default, they will be in Roman letters, in which case they need to be in mixed case.

Hand rails should also be brightly colored. And there also needs to be non-slip flooring everywhere where passengers may go.

So basically, the needs of the disabled (I mean mobility impaired) need to go before purchase price, maintenance costs, capacity relative to vehicle length, and various technological aspects such as ride quality. And the needs of those with vision problems need to go before aesthetics.

Remember, the mobility and sensory challenged will be better off and most certainly be happier if all these criteria are met, and most able bodied people with no vision problems won't be any less happy, if, say, the doors are color contrasted. Things like level boarding and color contrasted doors don't affect the quality of life of able bodied people with healthy eyes, nor the standard of living without these disabilities or impairments.
 #1466364  by mtuandrew
 
Basically, you can’t use public transit if you can’t board public transit. Given that transit is often a “mode of last resort” for the elderly, kids, people with disabilities, and those with lots of stuff in a car-prohibitive area, there’s no harm and lots of benefit in accessibility regardless of the ADA and similar.
 #1466402  by STrRedWolf
 
Ehhh... kinda of an extremist view. For Light Rail, there's three choices:
  • A dedicated section of low-floor on the vehicle and a slightly elevated platform. (VTA San Jose does this)
  • A high block aligned with the lead car's front doors and a bridge plate, which the operator has to come out, flop the plate over, have the customer come on board, flop it back, close the doors, etc... (MTA Maryland has this)
  • Full length high platform (Pittsburgh Port Authorty T does this at half the stations, but they have legacy non-ADA stations that they use a dedicated door for.)
(note some may choose to incorporate a lift system, similar to older buses)

It depends on how much money and what the transit system already has. Newer builds may choose to low-floor (what MTA Maryland was looking at for the Red Line).

That said, "If you can't take transit..." is a misnomer because there are paratransit systems both with various transit systems and added-on by various governments. MTA and RTA Maryland (Howard/Anne Arundel counties) have paratransit options.
 #1466411  by D Alex
 
Things may be different where you are, but around here those 'alternate options' generally require you to call a few days ahead, and adhere to schedules so poorly that you have to allow as much as an hour either way to make a trip.
 #1466450  by Myrtone
 
STrRedWolf wrote:
  • A dedicated section of low-floor on the vehicle and a slightly elevated platform. (VTA San Jose does this)
  • A high block aligned with the lead car's front doors and a bridge plate, which the operator has to come out, flop the plate over, have the customer come on board, flop it back, close the doors, etc... (MTA Maryland has this)
  • Full length high platform (Pittsburgh Port Authorty T does this at half the stations, but they have legacy non-ADA stations that they use a dedicated door for.)
  • With option A, such as in the example you gave, the vehicles still have part high floor, so as mentioned above, the wheelchair bound, those with walking frames, and even able bodied people with strollers (like buggies and shopping trolleys) still have to worry about where the low floor area is. However, these light rail vehicles are quite long, so the low floor area is still greater than it is on the streetcars in cities like Portland.
  • Option B seems to be the slowest, least easy, and is indeed the least dignified of the three.
  • Option C is a great option if high platforms are possible and quite acceptable in all locations, but basically any street based system will have locations where high platforms won't work, so in many cases, 100% low floor with platforms slightly higher than the sidewalk level.
Unfortunately, new systems no longer do the latter even if there would be no problem with high platforms. Calgary, for example, plans to go low floor on a new line entirely in reserve. :(

(Note that wheelchair lifts are apparently prone to failure and failure of such a ramp on a rail vehicle blocks traffic behind it)
STrRedWolf wrote:It depends on how much money and what the transit system already has. Newer builds may choose to low-floor (what MTA Maryland was looking at for the Red Line).
Accessibility needs to go before price. Federal funding helps if buying American. If an operator isn't currently in debt and expects to see an increase in revenue upon placing new vehicles into service, they can borrow money to help fund the purchase and then pay back the loan with the increased revenue.

Another thing about destination blinds; On legacy systems such as in Toronto and Philadelphia, there are route numbers, and those also need to be large enough to be readable to the disabled. These will most certainly be in Western Arabic numerals. Remember, there is more to accessibility (or "accessibility") than just getting the mobility impaired on and off the rail vehicles, color contrasted doors, brightly colored handrails, adequate door alarms, etc.
 #1466472  by STrRedWolf
 
Myrtone wrote: (Note that wheelchair lifts are apparently prone to failure and failure of such a ramp on a rail vehicle blocks traffic behind it)
(In this case, new MTA Maryland busses since 2010 are low-floor to the rear door and the ramp flips out).
Accessibility needs to go before price. Federal funding helps if buying American. If an operator isn't currently in debt and expects to see an increase in revenue upon placing new vehicles into service, they can borrow money to help fund the purchase and then pay back the loan with the increased revenue.
Well, not only that, if they don't have to build as much for each station, then they don't need to spend as much for each station. So accessibility (by going low-floor) has side benefits as well.

Everything else is a law-required specification that's written into every vehicle purchase contract. Bus manufacturers know this spec by heart. Rail car manufacturers need auditing, since different manufacturers keep popping up.
 #1466480  by Myrtone
 
(In this case, new MTA Maryland busses since 2010 are low-floor to the rear door and the ramp flips out).

What do you mean the ramp flips out? If a powered ramp gets stuck in the out position, then the operator can simply arrange a taxi for the disabled and also another bus, which leapfrogs the one with the failed ramp. While buses stop next to the footpath and can also kneel, these ramps are basically the only way to get wheelchairs onto low floor buses. And those with strollers like the ones mentioned above still have to lift the up the step.
The same does not apply to fixed guideway vehicles. Rail vehicles are unsuitable for kneeling, can anyone here explain why? Level boarding stops are a simple matter and work very well. Streetcars and L.R.Vs are incapable of leapfrogging so arranging another streetcar or light rail vehicle is not an option, and a team has to get out there as quickly as possible and perform a vehicle recovery.

Also, the buses are only low floor to the rear door, which is about as much as is possible with internal combustion engined buses. Since streetcars and light rail vehicles of today are nearly all electric, the same does not apply to them. Low floor is possible throughout.
STrRedWolf wrote:Well, not only that, if they don't have to build as much for each station, then they don't need to spend as much for each station. So accessibility (by going low-floor) has side benefits as well.
Note there the only advantage of low floor is level boarding where high platforms won't work and easier access without any platforms at all. High floor has many other advantages, especially for interurban services.
 #1466563  by STrRedWolf
 
Myrtone wrote:Also, the buses are only low floor to the rear door, which is about as much as is possible with internal combustion engined buses. Since streetcars and light rail vehicles of today are nearly all electric, the same does not apply to them. Low floor is possible throughout.
Streetcar and light rail ride on trucks (or bogies) that are on average 3' 6" tall and are required for it to even move. Also, the trucks do double duty as propulsion, and must be electrically insulated enough so that the guy sitting practically on top doesn't have his pacemaker fry when the operator gooses the throttle.

Look at VTA's rail cars. 50% (at least, I don't have the specs off hand) of it is low floor, and the middle train wheels are non-powered. All doors are low-floor. Operator cab and about two rows of seating on both ends are high-floor because... the propulsion truck it's riding on.
 #1466585  by Myrtone
 
STrRedWolf wrote:Streetcar and light rail ride on trucks (or bogies) that are on average 3' 6" tall and are required for it to even move. Also, the trucks do double duty as propulsion, and must be electrically insulated enough so that the guy sitting practically on top doesn't have his pacemaker fry when the operator gooses the throttle.
I don't get this but there are designs where passengers don't sit on top.
STrRedWolf wrote:Look at VTA's rail cars. 50% (at least, I don't have the specs off hand) of it is low floor, and the middle train wheels are non-powered. All doors are low-floor. Operator cab and about two rows of seating on both ends are high-floor because... the propulsion truck it's riding on.
Let's look at 100% low floor, quite common in Europe. These have short carbody sections, reminiscent of people movers. There is typically a suspended section between any two on fixed bogies, powered bogies have the motors on the outside. Seats over the bogies are on the wheel-boxes. While all such designs are claimed to be 100% low floor, some of them are actually almost 100% low floor, because there are steps to each side of the aisle where the bogies are.

There is one 100% low floor design that does have pivoting bogies and bogies under articulations, remember this. A few other pivoting bogie low floor models, including the Citadis spirit are almost 100% low floor. 100% low floor means no steps anywhere in the floor area.

Once again, commitments to the disabled are vital for their prosperity and salvation.
 #1466603  by Backshophoss
 
Most Major Transit systems that are bus based have "Para - Transit" operation that just about "Door to Door service" for the disabled,
built on a heavy-duty van chassis and can carry up to 7-10 people,3-4 on Wheelchairs and have the wheelchair lifts.
The only drawback is that it might not be available on Holidays or on a 24 hour basis.
 #1466607  by Myrtone
 
That doesn't work for rail based transit systems. Paratransit on rails is impractical and could not, in general, go from door-to-door. Accessibility of mass transit rail vehicles to the mobility impaired is therefore very important. Mass transit buses are not the same as any rail vehicles, see above for some differences.
 #1466714  by Backshophoss
 
The Para transit system operates as part of the OVERALL transit system,Rail based or Buss Based,most buses used in transit kneel, at best
carry 2 wheelchairs,if both are in use,no other wheelchairs can board(and loose 6 seats flipped up for Wheelchair strapping in those spots),
there can the same limits on light rail and subway cars.
This how most US transit systems meet the ADA requirements a combo of making most or all of the fleet accessible,along with the Para-transit component.
 #1466858  by Myrtone
 
In my experience with rail transit in my city, it's rare for two wheelchair bays to both be in use, I've never seen that. If an L.R.V of a given length can accommodate two wheelchairs, than one twice as long should be able the accommodate four of them.
 #1466972  by STrRedWolf
 
Myrtone wrote:In my experience with rail transit in my city, it's rare for two wheelchair bays to both be in use, I've never seen that. If an L.R.V of a given length can accommodate two wheelchairs, than one twice as long should be able the accommodate four of them.
VTA cars can accommodate four with ease, due to the low floor design.

MTA Maryland cars cannot without making a double-stop at the high-block platform, because it is not a low floor design. (TBH, they should switch to what VTA has)
 #1466990  by Myrtone
 
While the V.T.A vehicles may be able to accommodate four wheelchairs I have noted before, the V.T.A vehicles still have part high floor. Does anyone here know of any 100% low floor ones that can accommodate four or more wheelchairs? Has anyone here experienced European light rail?